Skip to main content

Full text of "Tonio Kröger"

See other formats


This is a digital copy of a book that was prcscrvod for gcncrations on library shclvcs bcforc it was carcfully scannod by Google as pari of a projcct 

to make the world's books discoverablc online. 

It has survived long enough for the Copyright to expire and the book to enter the public domain. A public domain book is one that was never subject 

to Copyright or whose legal Copyright term has expired. Whether a book is in the public domain may vary country to country. Public domain books 

are our gateways to the past, representing a wealth of history, cultuie and knowledge that's often difficult to discover. 

Marks, notations and other maiginalia present in the original volume will appear in this flle - a reminder of this book's long journcy from the 

publisher to a library and finally to you. 

Usage guidelines 

Google is proud to partner with libraries to digitize public domain materials and make them widely accessible. Public domain books belong to the 
public and we are merely their custodians. Nevertheless, this work is expensive, so in order to keep providing this resource, we have taken Steps to 
prcvcnt abuse by commcrcial parties, including placing technical restrictions on automatcd qucrying. 
We also ask that you: 

+ Make non-commercial use ofthefiles We designed Google Book Search for use by individuals, and we request that you use these files for 
personal, non-commercial purposes. 

+ Refrain from automated querying Do not send aulomated queries of any sort to Google's System: If you are conducting research on machinc 
translation, optical character recognition or other areas where access to a laige amount of text is helpful, please contact us. We encouragc the 
use of public domain materials for these purposes and may be able to help. 

+ Maintain attributionTht GoogX'S "watermark" you see on each flle is essential for informingpcoplcabout this projcct andhclping them lind 
additional materials through Google Book Search. Please do not remove it. 

+ Keep it legal Whatever your use, remember that you are lesponsible for ensuring that what you are doing is legal. Do not assume that just 
because we believe a book is in the public domain for users in the United States, that the work is also in the public domain for users in other 
countries. Whether a book is still in Copyright varies from country to country, and we can'l offer guidance on whether any speciflc use of 
any speciflc book is allowed. Please do not assume that a book's appearance in Google Book Search mcans it can bc used in any manner 
anywhere in the world. Copyright infringement liabili^ can be quite severe. 

Äbout Google Book Search 

Google's mission is to organizc the world's Information and to make it univcrsally accessible and uscful. Google Book Search hclps rcadcrs 
discover the world's books while hclping authors and publishers reach new audiences. You can search through the füll icxi of ihis book on the web 

at |http : //books . google . com/| 


R E M A R K S 




















H. Bryer, Frhiter» 
Bridtwel/ HMpita{f London. 

121337 C^l.^^, 

JUL ^ ^\ W<18 

to the general treasurer, the trea- / 
Surers of divisions, and the other com- 
missioners for the care of the türnpike 
äoads in the bristol district, to whose 
firmness and patriotic zeal in the dis- 
charge of their duty, the kingdom is 
indebted for the first example of the 
practice of a new and effectual system 
of improvement in the repair of the 
roads, and in the administration of the 
funds under their care; these re- 
marks are most respectfull¥ dedi- 
cated, as a testimqny of the esteem and 
gratitüde of their 

obliged and obedient servant, 





The present very defective state of the Tora« 
pike Roads and Highways in the United King- 
dom^ and the continual and apparently uolimited 
increase of the Toll Duties» are the consider- 
ations^ which have given rise to the publication 
of the foUowing remarks. 

Of the value of the information contained in 
them, the intelligent reader will be the most 
competent judge ; the anthor can only venture 
to assure him, that the few facts brooght for- 
ward in the coarse of the work have been most 
carefnlly authenticated ; that the opinions ad- 
vanced are the result of much thought^ and 
patient investigation ; that whatever may ap-^ 
pear theoretical^ has, for the most part, been 
already reduced to practice; and that where 
practice has been wanting, a long experience of 
the evils arising from the present system, and 


not tfae mere love of innovatioD, faas been tfae 
motive for the Suggestion of the remedies ^o- 

These» however, the author gladly submits 
to the good sense and candour of the public ; only 
requesting^ in the v^ßvds x>f a celebrated writer, 
that whoever favors him with a penisal» :wiU 
not judge by a few hojirs reading of the la* 
bours of nearly tliirty years* 

In the following chapters, the subject of 
Koadt viU be con^idered under three prinqpa) 




The care of tqb Finano^es: 
Which has appeared to the Author thp mps| 
clear and comprehensive arrangement» 

J I 




THE modes of making and repairing Roadg 
are so various in tbe different parts of tbe king« 
dorn» that it would be an endless task to attempt 
a particular account of eacb. It may, however, 
be possible to give a general idea of them» ac- 
cording to tbe materials produced in each part 
of tbe country. 

In tbe neigbbourbood of London, tbe rpads 
are formed of gravel ; in Essex and Snssex, they 
are formed of fliat; in Wilts, Somerset, and 
Glocester, limestone is principally used ; in tbe 
Nortb of England, and in Scotland, wbinstone 
is tbe principal material; and in Sbropsbire 
and Stafibrdsbire, large pebbles mixed with 

Excellent roads may be made witb any of 
tbese materials. 


The gravel of which tlie rouds round Londoa 
are formed is the worst ; because it is mixed 
with a large portion of cl^y, and because the 
component parts of , gravel are round^ and want 
the angular points of contact, by which brokep 
stone unites^ and forms a solid body ; the loose 
State of the roj^^ds ne^r London, is a conser 
quence of this quality in the material, and of 
the entire neglect, or ignorance ofthe method 
of amending it,. 

A more carefui examination of facts connect- 
ed with the roads round London, faas disco- 
vered several other causes^ from whence proceeds 
the defective state of these roads. The gr^atest 
appears to be, the division ofthe roads into so 
many small Trusts, which precludes the possi- 
bility of any extended plan of Operations, for 
the benefit of the whole. Before any one Voad 
round London can be properly reformedf and all 
wasteful expenditure restrained, a comprehen- 
sive view of the local Situation of the whole 
district will be requisite. 

Another great impediment to improvement, 
arises from the laws and regulations, which 
prevent a supply of good road materials, of 
several kinds, being brought to London by 
water, and land<ed in diiferent places, conveni. 
ent for the roads. Were these restrictions re- 


moved, as far as concerns stone, flint, or aay 
Ballast for road-making, London is so favorably 
situated for water-carriage by the river, and by 
tbe canals connected with it, tbat a sapply, 
equal to the wante of all the roads in the viel- 
nity of London, migbt be obtained at a rea- 
sonable rate, and of gpod qaality, so as to ren- 
der the use of the bad gravel round the me- 
tropolis no longer necessary.* Bat this mea- 
sure, to be performed in an economical^ and 
efficient manner, must be done upon an ex- 
tended scale; it must become o^e interest, di- 
rected by one select body of men of weight; 
abiiity, and character. 

A road near London may be made as smootfa, 
solid, and easy for cattle to draw carriages over, 
as the road near Bristol ; and the London road 
so made will last longer, and conseqiiently be 
less expensive than the Bristol road^ because 
the materials which may be obtained are more 
durable, and may be procured at less expence. 

* Tbis must not be undentopd as cfmveyi^g an opinion, tbat a good 
road may not be constructed with .the London gravel, iM^operly prepared 
and applied. Tbe road at Reading, in Berkshire, has lately been made 
perfectly sraootb» solid, and level, with a gnnrel inferior to that of London, 
and at less than it formerly cost. Carriages make no Impression on this 
rund, and it has rftmained good in all changes of weather. Neverthe]ess,a 
\ meanshaving been discovered, by diligent enqniry,forimporting flints, 
from a distance, tbe Reading road will, in foture, be repaired with flint, 
at half the expence required to prepare the gravel of the neighbourh9od* 



!Plint makes an excellent road, if due atten- 
tion be paid to the size ; but from want of that 
attention, many of the flint roads are rough, 
loose^ and expensive. 

Limestone, when properly prepared and ap- 
plied, makes a smooth, solid road, and beoomes 
Consolidated sooner tban any other material; 
but from its nature is not the most lasting. 

Wbinstone is the most durable of all mate«* 
rials; and wherever it is well and judiciously 
applied, the roads are comparatively good and 

The pebbles of Shropshire and StafFordshire, 
are of a hard substanee, and only require a 
prudent application to be made good road ma- 
terials. , 

On the other band, the Scottish roads, made of 
the very best materials, which are abundant and 
cheiap in every part of that country, are the 
pnostloose, roogh, and expensive roads in the 
United Kingdom, owing to the unskilful use of 
the material. 

The formation of roads is defective in most 
parts of the country ; in particular the roads 
round London, are made high in the middle, in 
the form of a roof, by which means a carriage 
goes upon a dangerous slope, unless kept on the 
yery centre of the road. 


These roadis are repaired by throwing a large 
^quantity of unprepared gravel Id the middle, 
;and trusting that, by its never consolidating, it 
^ill iD due time move towards the sides. 

^ben a road Jias been originally well made, 
it will be easily repaired. Such . a road can 
neyer beqome rough, or loose ; though it will 
gradually wear thin and weak^ in proportion to 
the use to wbich it is exposed ; the amendment 
wiU theo be made^ by the addition of a quantity 
of materials prepared as at first. As there will 
be DO expense on such road, between the first 
making and each subsequent repair, except the 
joecess^iry attention to the water ways, and to 
accidental injuries^ the funds will be no longer 
burdened with the unceasing expenditure, at 
present experieneed^ from continual efforts at 
repairing, without amendment of the roads. 

There cannot be a doubt, that all the roads 
in the kingdom may be made smooth and solid, 
in an equal degree, and to continue so at all 
seasons of the year. Their durability will of 
course depend on the strength of the materials 
of which they may be tomposed, but they will 
all be good while they last, and the only ques- 
tion that can arise respecting the kind of mate- 
rials, is one of time and expence, but never of 
the immediate condition of the roads. 


The anxious provisions of tbe Legislature for 
preservation of the roads have unfortunately 
taken precedence of measures for making^^ roads 
fit to be travelled upon, or worth the care of 
being preserved. Will it be deemed presump- 
tuous to pr opose, tbat some 4'egulatioos may be 
adopted, for encouragiog and promoting a bet- 
ter System of making roads, by eliciting the 
exertion of seience, and by creating a set of offi 
cers of skill, and reputation, to superintend this 
mdst essen tial branch of domestic economy ? 

When roads are properly made, very few re- 
gulations are neeessary for their preservation. 
It is cerlainly usefiil to make effectual provi« 
siön for keeping clear the water-courses, for 
removing nuisances, nnd for the pruning of trees 
änd hedges; for tbese purposes ample powers 
shonld be given to Commissioners ; bat the 
«idvantage of many existing r^gulations respect- 
ing wheeled carriages may very well be ques* 
tioned. There can be no doubt that many of 
those regulations are oppressive to commerce 
and agriculture, by compelling an inconvenient 
construction of carriages.* The author has 

*■ The increase of the breadth of the wheels, though in a greater Propor- 
tion ihau that of the weights, is by nb means a Kompensation for it ; be- 
cause tbe wbole breadth in many instatices, from the inequality of th# 
. ground, or the wheels, will not be brought to bear ; whenever it can, the 


liever observed any great difference of effect, on 
a well unade roadj by narrow or broad wbeels ; 
either of them will pass over a smootb, solid 
road, without leaving any visible Impression: 
on roughy ioose roads, the efFect will certainly 
be different; bnt whether a loose and rough 
road can be amended by dragging an unweildy 
carriage over it, or whether, if it were possible 
to amend roads by such means^ it can be deemed 
the most economical for the nation at large, can 
hardly be subject of doubt-f 

It must however be admitted, that the rvear 
of roads is proportioned to the weight and ve- 
locity bf carriages running apon a given breadth 
of the tire of the wheels, and therefore, it is of 

first impressiou must be made by the nails» where they are prominent > 
perhaps by a Single nail ; or the bearing may happen upon Single pieces 
of matörials, or up<Mi the edges of materiaU» incapable of supporting the 
weights. See Enquiry inio the State of the Pablk Roads, by the Rev» 
Henry Homer, A, M. Rector of Birdlingbury, Warwickthire, PuUitlted in 
1767, Page 66. 

It must be observed, that these remarks of Mr. Homer, and of every 
other writer on the subject of roads, are only applicable to such as are 
loose, rough, and uneven ; and that no on^ seems to have contemplated 
the idea of a road being made at once strong, smooth, and solid«— 


f Broad-wheeled carriages are found to be so unadapted to the purposes 
of husbandry, the number of horses requisite for their draught so great, 
and the beneficial effects of them to the road so questionable, that neither 
the encouragements on the one band, nor the discouragements on the 
other, hayebeen s^fficient to bring them into general use. 

HoMBR's £M<ivnY, Page 35. 


consequence that «ome regttlationid sfioald be 
adopted. Th& best regulations, as regard the 
breadth of the tire of wheels, will be found la 
several Acts of the Ses9ion of Parliament 1816^ 
where Carts are required to bave wheela of a 
cylindrical form five inches broad ; and Waggon 
Wheds of the same form six inches broad, 
mrith ^n equal npright bearing. The weights 
will be best and most easily regulated by the 
number of horses, or other cattle, drawing the 
carriages : and this, as a regulatipn of economy, 
may be made^ by the toUs at prostat payable 
OD the cattle being levied iti a lai^er ratio as 
the number increases. 

Waggons and carts with wheek of ü cylin- 
drical form and upright bearing, running on a 
breadth of tire of five and six inches, cannot 
injure a well made road, at the slow pace with 
which such carriages travel ; at least, in any 
Proportion beyond the toll tbey pay. On the 
contrary, it is certain, that Stage Coaches, with 
their present System of loading, and velocity of 
travelling upon very narrow wheels, damage 
the roads in a much greater proportion Iban 
the compensation derived from the toll« 

Every wheel> propelled by a force applied to 
its centre of motion, as the axis of a carcis^e 
wheel, is disposed by its specific gravity, to be 

dragged . forwards, instead of toming ix>oiid; 
and tbe rotative motion is oecasioned Jby the 
resistance presented by the sorface orer wbieh 
it passes; yet this resistance does not eotirely 
prevent dragging ; for every wheel running upon 
a road drags in some degree. This degree will 
be proportioned to the weight of the carriage, 
and the velocity of the whee] upon its axis, and 
will be opposed by the breadth of the tire 
Coming in contact with the road. 

Stage Coaches, therefore, carry ing heävy 
weights, moving with great velocity, and pre- 
senting to the road a narrow tire of wheel, 
must of necessity drag in a greater degree 
than any other carriage, as combining in them- 
selves every cause by which dragging is pro- 

When the Legislature shall have provided 
the means of putting all the roads in the United 
Kingdom into the best and fittest State for the 
accommodation of the agriculture and com- 
merce of the country, they will naturally con- 
sider of the most proper modes of protecting 
them from injury, or for indemnifying the 

* Above fifty Stage Coach journies are made daily between Bristol 
and Bath : the Author's Observation leads htm to the conclasion, that 
the toll duty paid by them, does not indemnify the funds for the wearinj^ 
of the road. > 


fands for the effects of ose wkich are ntiaToid- 
able, by imposing toll duties in a just and 
eqaitable proportion on the carriages occasion« 
ing such injury. 



The care of the Tom pike Roäds has been 
committed by Parliametit, into the hands of 
CommissiaDers» selected from that class of So- 
ciety, most capable of executing the daties of 
superintendancey and from their Station most 
likely to perform the dnty "with fidelity ; in 
this respect the expectations of the public has 
not been disappointed ; and there can be but 
one opinion, upon the obligations the country 
owes to this very respectable part of the Com- 
munity. Perhaps the only useful regulation 
wantedy in respect to Commissioners, would be 
to confine the qualification of Trustees to landed 

The superintending and controuling power, 
so wisely placed by Parliament in the Com- 
missioners, has not, however, been sufficient to 



secare all the objects of the Legislature. A 
scientific, laborious, executive power is want- 
ing*; and no means having been tbought of for 
this part of the Service, it bas been altogether 
neglected^ or at best very unprofitably sup- 
plied by a set of Surveyors, altogether Ignorant 
Ol the duties of the office they were called upon 

General superintendance and gratuitous Ser- 
vices, such as the law contemplated to receive 
from the Commissioners of Tumpikes, cnay be 
obtained, and have been faithfully and con- 
scientiously given by the Commissioners; but 
that constant and laborious attention, requisite 
to superintend the executive duties of a turn- 
pike trust, cannot reasonably be expected from 
gentlemen engaged m other pursuits. Were 
they to undertake the task, it must be subject 
to all the interruptions of their private afiairs, or 
other occupations ; and this alone would render 
their Services nugatory. Some instances of 
individuai zeal and exertion, on the part of 
Commissioners, in particular parts of the coun- 
try, have served to show what benefit might be 

* The general laws relating to highways seem sufficieüily calculated 
to answer the purpose intended by them, if Overseen were qaalified with 
a sufficieQt degree of jadgment to execate them properly, and of indastry 
and spirlt to do it e£fectualiy. Hombr's Eiiqvtry, Page 18. 


de|*ived from providing each county With an 
executive officer, whose sole atteotion should be 
given to the business ; whose Services should 
be amply remunerated, and of whom the Com- 
missioners might of right demand an account 
of the mahner in which their orders were car- 
ried into execution ; who should examine and 
audit tbci accounts of the Sub^^Mirveyors ; com- 
pare them with the work performed, and certify 
them, if approved^ to the Treasnrers. 

In ä trust of any extent, say about 150 miles 
of roady the time of such an officer wöuld be 
very fully employed. He must direct the exe- 
cution of the repairs, and alterations of the read» 
when ordered by the Commissioners ; and he 
must conti-oul the contracts, and other agree- 
ments entered jnto by the Sub-surveyors^ so as 
to prevent unnecessary expence ; he must exa- 
mine all work perfprmed, to see that it is cor- 
responding with contracts, and generally keep 
a vigilant superintendance over the persons em- 
ployed under him. Accounts of all expences 
incurred should every second week be deli« 
vered by the Sub-surveyors into bis office in 
duplicate; tilter examination, one copy to re- 
main in the office, the^other ceitified, to be sent 
to the Treasurer, upon which payment may 



Mach mu&t depend on the selection of tbe 
officer to whom this chargpe is committed ; he 
XDust have a considerable share of general in« 
formation respecting coantry business ; the sub- 
ject of road-tnaking ought to have been well 
considered by him ; his Station in society should 
be such, as to secure to him the support anä 
c<Hifidenee of the Commissioners, white it <^om- 
mands the obedience and deference of the sub-* 
Ordinate ofBcers. 

The success of the exertions of individual 
Commissioners, in particalar parts of the coun-« 
try first suggested the opinion, that a better 
System of road-making might be adopted, and 
the examples of a better practice extended tö 
all parts of the country ; but the benefit can 
never be rendered thus general, unless accom- 
panied by the zeal and activity that produced 
it; and this can only be supplied by officers, 
whose sole duty it shall be, and who will be 
accoontable to the Commissioners under whose 
Orders they act for the execution of the trust 
confided to them. Gratuitous Services are ever 
temporary and local, they are dependant on 
the residence, and life of the party j and have 
always disappointed expectation. Skill and 
executive labour must be adequately paid for, 
if expected to be constantly and usefnUy ex- 


erted; and if so exerted^ the price is no con- 
«ideration when compared with the advantage 
tx> the pablic. 

From the want of such au officer, the orden 
of the Commissioners, after haviog been ma- 
torely considered, and wisely given, have falten» 
for exeeutioa into the hands of Surveyors, se- 
lected not unfrequently from the lowest clai» 
of^ the Community» who have proceeded without 
plan or method. The consequence ,is seen in 
every corner ofthe oountry^ want of science 
in the Surveyor has ^one band in band with 
improvident expejiditüre» to the injury of the 
roads, and the derangement of the finances. A 
yigilant and unremitting superintendance is 
wanting to ensure an economical and effectual 

Whether it may not be useM to empower 
Commissioners in the small Trusts into which 
the roads of England are unfortunately divided, 
to unite together in sufficient number to enable 
them to provide a respectable and efficient exe- 
cutive officer^ and for othei: general purposes of 
improvement^ is humbly submitted to the wisdom 
of Parliament. 

The effect of an active and efficient controul 
over the Sub-surveyors, in the executive part of 
their duties; and in rescuin^ the funds from 


misapplication and depredation, is exemplified 
in the measores wisely entered into by the Com* 
missioners for the care of the tornpike roads in 
the Bristoi« DiSTRiCT, the success of which 
has amply justified their adoption, the roads 
having been entirely reformed and put into the 
best possible state for use, at an expence con- 
siderably within the revenue of the Trust. This 
improved State of the ünances has enabled the 
Gouimissioners to effect several great permanent 
improvementSj without forgetting the necessary 
Provision for liquidation of the debt, which had 
accumulated during foraier years. 



The fuuds placed by tbc Legislatare at tbe 
disposäl of tbe Commissioners for tbe care of 
tarnpike roads are very considerable, and migbt 
be supposed witb proper management, fuUy 
equal to tbe object; tbey arise principally 
from toll dütiesy and a proportion of Statute 

As long as it sball be necessary to raise large 
sums for tbe maintenance of roads, tbe present 
means must continue; toll daties, althougb li- 
able to many objections, are so immediateh/, 
and effectually productive, tbat little bope can 
be entertaioed of tbe possibility of tbeir being, 
reducedy until a continuance of a better System 
sball ba,ve materially amended tbe roads^ and 
redaced tbe expence, so as to leave means for 
exting^isbing tbe beavy debt owing by tbe 
country for tbis brancb of tbe public seryice. 


Statute labour, in kind^ was decreed by Par- 
liament at a time, when no betler means could 
be devised : when a circulating medium was 
deficient^ and when a fair quantum of labour 
could not, in many parts of the country, be ob- 
tained for money. 

Personal labour for a public Service can never 
be n^ade profitable, or fairly productive ; at the 
same time^ it is liable to the great objections of 
being made an instrument of partiality and op- 
pression under the direction of a clasd of men 
with whom such a power should neyer be lodged, 
and over whom, in tbis instance, no ad^quato 
controul can be placed. 

The caibses, which operated to induce Par- 
liament to resqrt to personal service, having 
ceas^d, it will be found expedient to commute 
Statute laboar for a moderate assessment in 
money. This has been ejBfected with great ad« 
vantage in Scotland, by qiosti if not all of the 
local and county Acts for tornpike roads.^ 

The sum of money annually raised ii) the 
kingdöm for roads is very great, and would . 

^ It isiinpossihle not to see tbat Statute labour is a remnaot of personal 
Service ; ä gentleman might as well argue at the present day/ that rent^ 
paicl in kind, are more easy and equitable fban monied ronts» ät tode-. 
fend the custom of mending highways by compulsory labour. 

Edgbworth's Essay om the Constructiom of 
KoAts ÄND Carriag&s, p. 46, 


be fouod, if carefully examined ioto» mach 
beyond the general belief, Government have 
procured information, as to the sum raised an« 
nu^lly for parüh roads (generally denominated 
highways) but tbey have not yet enquired into 
the amount of the mach greater som raised for 
the maintenance of the tumpikß roads, nor into 
the amount of the debt incurred for the same 

These funds» consid^rable as tbey are» con- 
tinue to be expended, fjMininaUyj under the 
direction of Commissioners» bat effectually and 
/irac<ica% und^r tbe SurveyorSj over whom the 
Commissiönars have very uncertain means of 
useful controul; and there is no donbt^ that 
maob abäse exists in the expenditore» partly 
from ignorance^ but mueh more from peoalation 
and patronage very moch misplaced. 

Under such circumstances the protection 6f 
the funds would be promoted by the inspection 
and controul of a sup^rior oflicer } and finally it 
migbtbe desirable, that a report from each trust 
should he made to ParUament of the receipt and 
expenditiire for the year* 

That the funds provided by PArljanient for 
tbo roads are eith^r insufficient for the objecto or 
that they are improvidently . expended, is 
best proved by the nnmerous applications to 


Patliätnent in every Session, for extension of 
powers and increase of tolls j setting forth that 
without such aid the debts cannot be paid, nor 
the roads kept in repair. In the Session of Far- 
]iament 1815, thirty-four such petitions were 
presented; and in the Session of 1816, thirty« 
two ; all which bills were passed as a matter of 
course; the petitioners being only required to 
prove the actual necessity to the Gommittee, but 
no enquiry seems to have been made as to the 
cause of that necessity. 

An efHcient, uniform and constant controul 
of the expenditure of road fnnds, and an an- 
nual report of the result to Parliament would 
enable theHouse of Commons to form a judg- 
ment, whether the deficiency proceeded from 
inadequacy of the means, or from improvident 
expenditure; and thereby that Honourable 
House woufd bei enabied to use means for pre- 
venting the growing amount of debt, which 
the petitions presented each Sessions sufficiently 
shew to be increasing to an alarming degree ; 
and which, being incurred under the authority 
of Parliament, must ultimately become a claim 
npon the justice of the country. 

Upon consideration of this important subject 
it appears, that a review of the turnpike laws 
has become indispensable, for the purpose of 


altering and amending absalete, useless, and 
oppressive regalations; and for snbstituting 
Dthers more consonant i^ith the present State 
of Society. This review is required by expe- 
rience of the inädequacy of the present system, 
to the great object of forming the best and 
easiest Communications throogh every part of 
the country, with 9- due regard to economy; 
and for preventing tue increase of a debt, ivhich 
has been allowed, in silence, to accumulate to an 
extent, that will hardly be credited when pro- 
perly and accurately ascertained. 

Many and important improyements have 
originatedfrom the good sense and zeal of in- 
dividual Commissioners^ or from particular 
district meetings, the good effects of which 
have been confined to the place of origin ; such 
improvements hare also ceased to operate, on 
the death or removal of their authors, and have 
been thereby finally lost, for want of a general 
superintendance, which would have an interest 
in the iinprovement of the whole. 

The defective state of the roads, independant 
of the unnecessary expenc^, is oppressive on 
agriculture, commerce, and manufactures, by 
the increase of the price of transpoi^, by waste 
of the labour of cattle^ and wear of carriages, 
as weU as by causing much delay of time. 


Under an efficient and responsible execoÜTe 
department» .established aud directed by tbe 
^Fisdom of Parliament, tbis sabject would be 
brought witbin tbe means of examination and re- 
gulation ; and many local improvenientSy urbich 
bave been confined to small districts, would he 
brougbt forward^ and communicated generally 
for tbe public benefit.* 

* Slnce this Essay was written, I haT« visited Englandi and have fbond, 
on a journey of many hundred miles^ scarcely twenty miles of well-made 
fDad. In many parts of the country, and espectally round London, the 
roads are in a shameful condition» Tbis most strike tbe poblic ; and 
soottcr or later the good sense of the English nation will feel the nccessity 
of adopting some means of improvement. 

EnoEWoarrH^s Essay, Prefaee, p. 7, 

In Ireland, the cross-roads ate generally better tban the great roads, 
and comparing all tbe roads in that country with the roads in England, 
the shamefal inferiority of the latter would evidently appear. 

Edgeworth's Essat, p« 4& 


THE Author has abstained from any nötice 
of the parish roads; although their condition 
and the State of their funds^ are more deplorable 
than that of the tarnpike roads. The Legisla- 
tive enactments for their maintenance and re- 
pair are so inadequate to the objecto that they 
tnay be considered as being placed almort out 
of the protection of the law. 

There can be no apparent good reason, why, 
such a distinction should be made between the 
two description of roads ; and their being both 
placed ander the care of the Conimissioners, 
with the beneflt of the scientific direction of a 
General Surveyor, would ensure an equal im- 
provement of the parish roads. 


The foregoing Remarks on Roads cannot he 
heiter cancluded than hy thefolhwing Extract 
fnyin the Report qfthe Committee qf theHome 
of Cammons in 181 1 . 

' ^^ The many important advantages to be de> 
rived from amending the bighways and turnpike 
roads of tbe kingdom need bardly be dwelt 
upon. . Every individual in it would thereby 
find bis comforts materially increased^ and bis 
tnterest greatty promoted. By tbe impvove- 
ment of our roads, every brancb of oür agricul- 
tural, commercial, and manufacturing industry 
T¥Ould be materially benefited. Every article 
brougbt to market wonld be diminisbed in 
price; tbe number of borses virouid be so mach 
redüced, tbat by tbese» and otber retrench- 
ments, tbe expence of FIVE MILLIONS 
would be annually saved to tbe public. Tbe 
expence of repairing roads, and the wear and 
tear of carriages and borses, wou]d be essen« 
tially diminisbed ; and thousands of acres, the 
produce of which is now vi^asted in feeding 
unnecessary borses, would be devoted to tbe 
production of food for man. In short, the 


public and private advantages, which would 
result from effecting that great object, the im- 
provement of our highways and turnpike roads, 
are incalculable ; though from their being spread 
over a wide surface, and available in various 
>¥ays, such advantages vfill not be so apparent 
as those derived from other sources of improve- 
ment, of a rnore restricted and less general 




JExtracts front Observations on the Highways of 
the Kingdom, hy JoHN LoüDON M'Adam, 
presented to a Committee of the House qf 
Commons, and printed by order ofthe Hauscy 
lAthJune 1811, 

^* In all the Reports of Committees of the 
House of Commons on the subject of Roads, 
they seem to haye had principally in view the 
construction of wheeled carriages, the weights 
they were to draw, and the breadth and form 

<^ of their wheels ; the nature of the roads on 

'^ which these carriages were to travel has not 

" been so well attended to/' 

The observations I have made in a period 
of twenty-six years on the roads ofthe king- 

** dom, in which time 1 have travelled over the 
greaier number in England and Scotland, and 
the opportunities I have had of making com- 

^^ parisons on the different materials and the 

^' modes of their application, have led me to 

" form the foUowing conclusions." 





^ Ist. That the present bad condition of the 
** roads of the kingdom is owing to the injudi- 
*' cious application of the materials witb which 
" they are repaired, and to the defective form of 
*^ the roads/' 

" 2nd. That the introdaction of a better Sys- 
tem of makiDg the surface of roads, and the 
application of scientific principles, which has 
" hitherto never been thought of, woald remedy 
** the evil." 

** In illustration of these positions, I beg to 
** observe, that the object to be attained in a 
" good road, as far as regards the surface, is to 
^^ have it siliooth, solid, and so flat as that a car- 
** riage may stand upright; these objects are 
^^ uot attained by the present system, because 
** no scientific principles are applied ; bat it is 
'* presamed they are perfectly attainable in all 
" parts of the country." 

<< Stone is to be procured in some form in aU 
*^ most every part of the kingdom, and a road 
'* made of small broken stone to the depth of 
'< ten inches, will be smooth, solid and durable/' 
<' The materials of which the present roads 
** are composed, are not worn out ; but are dis- 
placed by the action of the wheels of car- 
riages upon stones of too large a size: the 
wbeel does not pass over the materials^ of 


'^ X)(rhich the road is förmed, b'ut i&( cönstanüy'^ 
^ almost at every step, encoantering an obstacle 
^ wbich must either give way and be removed, 
** or the carriage must be lifted by the force of 
^^ tbe cattle so as to surmouni it ; in eitber case 
** the road is injured, and the carriage impeded, 
^* and the injury and impediment will be great 
'< in the exact proportion to the number and siz€ 
** of the obstacles." 

^ The size of stones for & road has been de- 
'* scribed in contracts in several different wäys, 
*^ sometimes as the size of a hen^s egg^ some- 
'^ times at half a pound weight. These descrip- 
** tions are very vague, the first being ah indefi« 
'' nite size, and the latter depending on the den- 
** sity of the stone used, and neither being at^ 
** tended to in tbe execution. The size of stone 
<^ used on a road must be in due proportion to 
** the Space occupied by a wheel of ordinary di- 
^* mensions on a smoothlevel surface, this point 
*^ of contact will be found to be, longitudinally 
** about an inch, and every piece of stone put 
** into a road, which exceeds an inch in any of 
'* its dimensions, is mischievous." 

*' The roads in Scotland are worse than tbose 

'* in England, although materiah are more 

*' abundant, of better quality, and labour at 

^* lea$t as cheap, and the toll duties are nearly 

e 2 


^* double } this is because road-makin^, that i& 
<< tbe surface, is even worse understood in ScoU 
" land than in England. By a late discussion 
^ in Parliainent on the subject of Mail Coachea 
** paying toll, it was universally allowed tha4 
^' tbe roads in Scotland were in a deplorabla 
*^ state^ and in tbeir circumstances, bankrupt.'* ^ 

Note. — It is understood^ that the Postmaster- 
General was ohliged to give up the mail-coach 
from Glasgow to Ayr^ on the road towards Ire-- 
land, on account of the expence of tollSf and the 
had condition of the road ; there beingten turn- 
pike gates on thirtyfour miles of road. 


DuRiNG nearly five years that the \irriter has 
given bis wbole attention to the improvement of 
the Turopike Roads^ experieoce haviog coii- 
firmed bis ideas on the subject^ iio endeavours 
faave been spared, to extend the benefits >¥hich 
have already resalted to the Bristol district^ over 
the whole country. The very limited means 
possessed by any individoal for tnfloencing diis 
importacit branch of domestic economy, has oe*' 
casioned frequent attempts to convey instruq- 
tions for road-making in writing. This method 
has never been entirely successful ; it being im- 
possible to acquire a mechanical art without 
actual practice ; or to obtain any just ideas of it^ 
bieyond the first principles^ from books. 

These principles are^ that a road ought to be 
considered as an artificial flooring forming a 
strong, smoothy solid surface, at önce capable of 
carrying great weight^ and over which earriages 
may pass without meeting any impediment. 


pireeüon^Jbr Repqir qf an old Road, ^I^^^S ^^ substßnce qf 
a Communication made to a Committee of the Honourable 
House qf Commonsin 1811, and published mtk the Report 
hy Order of the Hotise, tvith additions and aUeratiöns^ 
. fikdt^ced Jnm actual practice during the last threeyears. 

Ist February IS19.' 

- No addiüoQ of materials is to be brought upon a road, 
,up]eg8 in any part of it be found that there is not a quantky 
pf clean stone equal to ten inches in thickness. 

Thje stone already in the road is to be loosed up and broken^ 
ßo as no piece shall exceed six ounces in weight. 

The road is then to be laid as flat as possible, a rise of 
ibree inches froxn the centre to the side is sufficient for aroad 
thirty feet wide. 

The stones Tirhen Iposened in the roa^ are to be gatbere4 
off by means of a strong heavy rake, #ith teeth two and a 
half inches in length, to the side of the road, and there 
broken, and on no account are stones to be broken on the 

When the great stones haye been removed, and none left 
in the road exceeding six ounces» the road is to be put ii) 
shape and a rake employed to smooth the surface, which will 
at the same time bring to the surface the remaining stone^ 
and will allow the dirt to go down. 

When the road is so prepared, the stone that hasbeeii 
broken by the side of the road is then to be carefully spread 
on it— this is rather a nice Operation^ and the future quality 
of the road will greatly depend on the manner in which it is 
performed. The stone must not be laid on io shovels füll» 


but scattered over the surfacey one shovel füll following* 
another and spreading over a considerable space. 

Only a small space of road should be liited at once ; five 
men in a gang should be set to lifl it aU across : two men 
should continue to picfk up and rake off the large stones and 
to form the road for receiving the broken stone, the other 
three should break stones — the broken stone to be laid on as 
soon as die piece of road is prepared to receive it, and then 
brealc up another piece ; two or three yards at one lift is 

The proportioning the work among the five men must of 
course be regulated by tbe nature of the road ; when there 
are many very large stones, the three breakers may not be 
able to keep pace with the two men employed in lifting and 
forming, and when there are few large stones the contraiy 
may be the case $ of all jthis the Surveyor must judge and 
direct. ^ 

But while it is recommended to lift and relay roads which 
have been made with large stone, or with large stone mixed 
with clay, chalk or other mischievous materlals, there are 
many cases in which it would be highly unprofitable to lift 
and relay a road, even if the materials should have been 
orlginally too large. 

The road between Cirencester and Bath is made of stone 
too large in size, but it is of so friable a nature that in lifting 
it becomes sand ; in this case I recommended cutting down 
the high places, keeping the surface smooth and gradually 
wearing out the materials now in the road, and thenreplacing 
them with some stone of a better quality properly prepared. 

In like manner a part of the road in the Bath district is 
made of freestone which it would be unprofitable to lift. 

At Egham in Surrey, it was necessary to rcmove the whole 
road to separate the small portion of valuable materials from 
the mass of soft matter of which it was principally composed. 


which was remoyed at consideirable expence« befqrß ^ jpq^ 
could be again made upon the site. 

Other cases of several kinds have occurred where a dil*- 
ferent method must be adopted^ but which it is impossible t.Q 
jspecifyf and must be met by the practical skill of the Officer 
- whose duty it may be to superintend the repair of a road« 
and who must constantly recur to general principles. These 
principles are uniform« however much circumstances may 
differ, and they must form the guido by which bis judgmen^ 
must be always directed. 

When additional stone is wanted on a read that has Con- 
solidated by use, the old hardened surface of the road is to 
be loosened with a pick, in order to make the fresh mate- 
rials unite with the old. 

CatriageSy whatever be the construction of their wheelsj 
will make ruts in a new made road until it consolidates, 
however well the materials may be prepared, or however 
judiciously applied ; therefore a careful person must attend 
for some time afler the road is opened for use» to rake in the 
track made by wheels« 

The only proper method of breaking stones« both for elflfect 
and economy, is by pe^ons sitHng ; the stones are to be 
placed in small heaps, and women, boys, or old men past 
Jiard labour, must sit down with small haramers and break 
theiiiy so as nione shall exceed six ounces in weight. 
The Tools to he usedarcy — > 

Strotig picks, but short from the handle to the point, fbr 
lifting the roadl 

Small hammers of about one pound weight in the head, 
the face the size of a new Shilling, well steeled, with a riiort 

Rakes with wooden heads, ten inches in length, and iron 
teeth about two and a half inches in length, very streng for 
raking out the large stones when the road is broken up, and 


Ibriceepiiig the road smootli afler beiag relaidy and while it 
js coDSoHdating. 

Very light broad-mouüied shovds» to spread tfae broken 
^Qtone and to form the read. 

Eveiy road is to he made of 1>r0k^ atone without miactur^ 
of eartb, clay, chalk» or aaj otber matter .that wiU imbibe 
water, and be afieqted mih frost ; joiothing is to he laid o^ 
the clean stone on pretence o£ Unding f broken stone wXL 
cotnbine by its own angles into a amootli solid surface tbat 
cannpt be affected by yicissitudes of weather, or displace4 
by the action of wheelsi wbich will pass overit without « 
jplt) and consequently without injury. 



The price of lifting a rpugh roftd, breaking Ihe stonea» 
forming the road, smoodiing the mtütoe, deaning edt the 
water-courses, and replacing Ae stone, lewring the rdadina 
finished State, haa been found ia practtoe to be from one 
penny to two-pence per siipei€ciid yard, Hfted four inches 
deep s the Variation of price d^nds on the great^ or las** 
ser quantity of stone to be broken. 

At two-pence per yard, a road of sisi yards wide will cost, 
therefore, one Shilling per running yard, or 881. per mile. 

Any rough road may be rendered smooth and solid ät thjs 


ipriee, unless it be weak and require an addttion of stone, or 
require some very material alteration of shape. 

Ereaking stone fias been reduced in price by tfae use of 
more proper hammers, and the sitting posture« 

The Cräimissioners at Bristol used to pay fifteen pence 
per ton for limestone froin Durdham-Down, for the use of 
their roads, and broken to a size above twenty ounces. — 
Stone 18 now procured from the same place, broken so as 
Bone exceed six ounces for ten-pence per tonl and^ the 
workmen are very desirous of contracts at that rate, because 
Üie faeavy work is done by the men, the light work with small 
faammers by the wives and children, so that whole famiües 
are employed. 

Jn Sussex, the proportion is greater between former and 
present prices ; the breaking of flint cost at one time ti70 
Shillings per ton, and is now done, by mtroducing a better 
method and fitter tools at one Shilling per ton. 

By a more judicious preparation and appliciation of ma* 
terials the quantity of stone consumed in roads is decreased, 
by which a great saving of expenpe is made, and with this 
great advantage, that the saving is in horse labour of cart-* 
age, while the labour price is given to men, and in such a 
manner as includes boys from the age of ten upwards, wo- 
men and old men past the age of being able to labour hard* 
The Proportion of men and horse labour in the Bristol diso 
trict, under the former management, was 

One-fourth to men*s labour» 
Three-fourths to horse labour. 

Under a better System of management tho proportion has 
been exactly reversed : during half a ye;ar that an exact ao* 
count was kept, there was paid. 

For men's, women and children's labour, jf 3088. 
For horses' labour ..•• 10i5. 


^Tbis imioeiuie advantage is presented id ereiy pftrt of tii« 
'/co\mtry, as roads are confined to no particular place, and are 
«universally in want of n^air : ample funds are already pror 
yided for every lueful and proper purppse, although at pre- 
Beiit misapplied in al^ost every pari of the kingdom* whfle 
.the labourers are in want of tbat employment wbich it oughl 
10 afford them. 





Having communicated to your Honourable 
Board, some observations on making and repair- 
ing roads, in February, 1819, 1 beg leave to add 
the foUowing, which have ari$$en from increased 
experience on the subject, and also from a desire 
of calling your attention to the effects of the 
late severe winter on the roads of the country, 
and the confirmation afforded to the opinions I 
have endeavoured to introduce on the construc- 
tion of roads. 

During the late winter, and particularly in 
the month of January, 1820, when the frost was 
succeeded by a sudden thaw, accompanied by 
the melting of snow, the roads of the kingdom 
broke up in a very alarming manner, and to an 
extent that created great loss and inconvenience 
by the Interruption of communication, and the 


delay of tbe mails, and a]so occasioned a very 
fieavy extra expenditure by the Post-office. 

The obvious cause of this defect of tbe roada» 
was the admi^sion of water frota the lootö and 
unskilful method of their construction« Previons 
to the severe frost, the roads were fiUed with 
water, whieh had penetrated through the ill* 
prepared and unskilfully laid materials : this 
caused an immediate ex;pan8ion of the wbole 
mass during the frost, and upon a sudden tbaw, 
the roads became quite loose, and the wheels of 
earriages penetrated to tbe original soil, which 
was also satürated with water, from tbe open 
State of the read. By this means, many roads 
beeame altogether impassable, while the whole 
were rendered deep and inconvenient to be tra* 
velled upon. 

In particular, it was observed, that all tbe 
roads of which cbalk was a component part, 
hecBLme, generally, irapassable ; and eveß, that 
tbe roads naade over chalk soils gave way in most 
places. This evidently proceeded from the ab- 
sorboit qnality of cbalk, which renders it so 
teaaeioaft of water, that I consider its use to be 
qne of the most dangerous errors in road making. 
1 was indoced cm formen occasions to recom- 
oiend particular<3ar©in making roads over cbalk 
soib, aiid to advise a discontinuance of the 


|>te<^t]ce of mixing chalk, clay, or any öitief 
matter that holds water, with the materiais of a 
road. Tbe experience of last winter has con- 
firmed tbis opinioo, and has shewn tbe ruinoiüs 
effects of tbe former metbod. 

Of all tbe roads wbkb bave been thoroughly 
re*made, according to the directions wbicb I 
had tbe bonöur to submit to your Honourabk 
Board last spring, not one has given way, nor 
has any delay taken place through the severity 
of the late season . 

As every winter has, in some degnree, pre^ 
seBted such inconveniences, and as it has been eih- 
served that very severe winters occiir in England 
every six or seven years^ it is of gteat conse- 
quence to conaid^ of the means of constructing ' 
the roads of the kingdom in such a manner as 
shall prevent their being in future a£Seeted by 
any change of weather or season. 

The roads can never be rendered thus per- 
fectiy secnre, until the foUowing principles be 
fuUy understood, admitted, and acted upon: 
namely, that it is the native soil which really 
Supports tbe weight of traffic : that wbiie it is 
preserved in adry State, it will carry any weight 
without sinking, and that it 4loes in fact carry 
the road and the carriages also; that this native 
soil must previöusly be made quite dry, and a 


<3övering^ impeüetrable to raiii, miist iheti be 
placed over it, to preserve it in that dry state ; 
that the thickness of a road should only be regu- 
lated by the quantity of material necessary to 
form such impervious covering, and never by any 
reference to its onm power of carrying weight. 

The erroneous opinion so long acted upon, 
and so tenaciously adhered to, that by placing 
a large quantity of stone under the roads, a re- 
medy will be found for the sinking into wet clay, 
or other soft soils, or in other words, that aroad 
may^ibe made sufficiently strong, artificially, to 
carry heavy carriages, though the sub-soii be in 
a wet State, and by such means to avert the in- 
conveniences of the natural soil receiving water 
from rain, or other causes, has produced most of 
the defects of the roads of Great Britain. 

At one tinie I had formed the opinion that 
tfais practice was only a useless expence, bnt ex- 
perience has convinced me that it is likewise po- 
sitively injurious. 

It is wellknown toevery skilful and observant 
road-maker, that if strata of stone of various 
sizes be placed as a road^ the largest stones will 
constantly work up by the shaking and pressure 
of the traffic^ and that the only mode of keeptng 
the stones of a road from motion, is to use mate- 
rials of a. uniform size from the bottom. In* 


Mads fiiade apon large stönes as a foundationf, 
the perpetuat motion, or ebange of tbo positi<^ 
of the materials^ keeps open many apertur^i^ 
4hroagh which the water passe». 

It bas also been fovmdy that roads placed upoia 
a hard bottom, wear away more qoickty ik^n 
those which are placed upon a soft soil. Tbis 
has been apparent upon roads where motives of 
economy» or otber causes, have prevented the 
road being lifted to the bottom at once ; the 
wear bas always been found to diminisb^ as sotm 
as it waA possible to remove the hard foundation. 
It 18 a known fact, that a road lasts mueh longer 
4>ver a morass than when made over rock. The 
eiridence produced before the Committee of the 
House of Commons, shewed the comparison on 
the road between Bristol and Bridgwater, to be 
as fiveto seyen in favour of the wearing ou the 
morass, where the road is laid on the naked sur- 
face of the soil, against a part of the same road 
made over rocky groand. 

The practice common in England, and uni- 
iv^ersal in Scotland, on the formation of a new 
road» is, to dig a trench below the surfaee of the 
grouod adjoining, and in this trench to deposit 
a quantity of large stones ; after this» a second 
qnantity of stone» broken smaller, generally to 
about seven or eight pounds weight ; these pre* 


Vious bedf^ of stone are calied the bottomibg of 
tfae road, and are of varioos thickness, aceord'^ 
iDg to the caprice of the maker, and generally 
in Proportion to the sam of .moiiey placed at hii 
disposaL On some new roads, made in Scot-^ 
landy in the summer of 1819, the thickness ex«- 
ceeded three feet. 

. That which id properly calied the road, is 
then placed on the bottoming, by potting large 
quantities of broken stone or gravel, generally a 
foot or eighteen inches thick^ at once upon it. 

Were the materials of which the road itsetf is 
composed, properly selected» prepared, and laid, 
some of the inconveniences of tbis System might 
be avoided ; bat in the careless way in which 
this Service is generally performedi the road is 
as open as a sieve to receive water ; which pene- 
trates through the whole mass, is received and 
retained in the trench, whence the road is liabla 
to give way in all changes of weather. 

A road formed on soch principles has never 
effectually answered the purpose which the road- 
maker sboold constantly have in view ; namely^ 
to make a secure, level flooring, over which car* 
riages may pass with safety, and eqaal expedi- 
tion, at all seasons of the year. 

If it be admitted, as I believe it is now very 
generally, that in this kin^dom an artificial road 


ig <mly rßqoired to obyiate tbe üüeioiiyeiiKBiiw of 
a Tery onsetüed climate ; and thai water with 
alCeraaite frost and thaw» are tbe evib to be 
gaarded agaiast, it niiiat be obvioua ihaifc 
BOthtng can be more erronecMifl tlMin providiaf^ 
a Teaervoir for water nnder the road and gmag 
facility to the water to pass through tbe read 
into tbis trench, where it is acted upoa by frost 
to the destruction of the road. 

As no ^rtificial road oan ever be luade w 
good^ and so useful as tlie natural soil in a dtrg 
rtaief it i» oaly neeessary to procare, and pre- 
senre this dry State of so much ground as ia 
kiteuded to be occupied by a roäd. 

The first Operation iu making a road shooid 
be the reverae ^ digging a trench. The road 
shonkl not be sunk below, but rather raised 
above, tbe ordinary level of the adjacent ground» 
eare should at any rate be taken, that there be 
a sufficient fall to take off the water, ao that it 
shoaki always be some inches below the level 
of the gröaod upon which the road is intended 
to be placed: this ninst be done, either by 
making drains to lower ground, or if that be not 
practicable, from the natare of the cotintry, then 
the soil upon which the road is proposed to be 
laid, must be raised by addition, so as to be 
some inches above the level of the water. 


Havkig seeared the soü from umukr watcTi 
^e c<md*maker is next to secore k from raio 
vater, by a solid road, made of clean, dry stooe, 
or flint, sa sekcted, prepaced, and laid, a» to ba 
perfedly impervioos ta water : and this camiot 
be effected, unless the greatest care be takea, 
that HO earfeb, clay^ chalk, or other matter, tiiat 
ymü hold or coDduct water, be mixed with tba 
brokeh stone ^ which must be so prepi^ed and 
küd, BA to uiiite by its own apgles into^ a iknn, 
comipaet; impcaietrable body. 

The thic^oess of s«cfa road is unmaterial, aa 
to its strength for carrying weight«; thjs object 
ia already obtained by providing a dry soiface, 
o^er wUcb the road h to be placed %» a ca^^esir 
i^Eig:, or roof> to preserve it m tbat stalte ; expesi-* 
^ce haviog shewn» tbat if water paßs^st^^tlurou^h 
a road^ and (AI the native soü, tbe road» what* 
eFQr Q^ay be it^ thickne^s, Iq9W ijts flupport, and 
goes to piecea. 

In ccm$eqnenqe qf au alteration in tb@ Uq^ of 
the turnptke rpad, n^ar B.pwiiham Feery» .m 
tbe parish of Ai^too, near Bristol, tt lias beea 
fiece^sary to remove the öld roaxl* Thia road 
was lifted acMi re-laid very skilfally ia 1310; 
since which time it has been in contemplati^p 
to change the liofe, and coRseqoently, it has b$eii 
sii^r^d to wear very thio« At pre/j^^Dt it is »tot 



abave tbree incbes thick in most places« amd 
in none more than fear: yet on removiog tlie 
road it was fouod, tbat no water bad penetrate^ 
Bor bad tbe frost affected it during all tli^ late 
Winter; and tbe natural earth beneatb tbe read 
was found perfectly dry^ 

Seyeral new roads bave been constracted osi 
tbis principle withio tbe last tbree years. Part 
of tbe great north road from London by Hod« 
desdon in Hertfordsbire — ^two pteces of road ojt 
Durdbam Down, and at Rownbam Ferry, near 
Bristol — witb several private roads^ in tbe eastt 
em partof Sussex. 

None of tbose roads exceed six incbes in 
tbiekness, and altbqngb tbat on tbe great nortb 
road i« subjected to a very beavy traffic, (being 
only fifteen miles distant from London) it ha$ 
not given way, nor was it affected by tbe late 
severe winter; wben tbe roads between tbat 
and London became inipassable, by breaking up 
to tbe bottom, and tbe mails and otber coacbes 
were obliged to reacb London by circuitous 
routes. It is wortby of Observation» tbat tbese 
bad roads cost more money per mile for tbeir 
annuai repair, than ihe original makiiig of tbis 
nsefnl new road. 

Improvement of roads^ upon tbe principle I 
bave endeavoured to explain^ has been rapidly 


ei^tended during^ the last four years. It ' has 
bden carri^ into «ffect^ on various voads, and 
with every yariety of material, in seventeen dif- 
ferent connties. These roads being so con- 
strncted as to exclude water, conseqnently none 
of them broke op daring the late severe winter ; 
there was no intermption to travelling, nor any . 
«dditional expense by the PosfM)ffice in €onvey- 
ing'llie maus over thmn, to the extent of up- 
wards of one thoosand mües of road. 

Many new roads, and to a considerable ex- 
tent, are projected for the ensaing^eason. Some 
of them are to be assisted by grants or loans 
from govemment, and it will be a great saving 
of property, and enable govemment to extend 
thi^r asststance more effectually, if these röads 
he made in the mo&t approved and economical, 

■ The onnecessary expense attending the mak- 
ing of new roads in the manner hitherto prac« 
tiiedf is one great cause of the present heavy deU 
«pon the road trusts pf the kingdom. The 
principal part of the lai^e sums br%inally bor- 
rowed, have been sunk in the useless, and in 
my opinion, mischievous preparation, of a foun^ 
dation. This debt presses heavily on the fonds 
of all the rojEids in England, and, in many cases, 
H^bsprbs almost their whole revenue in payment 


•f liierest, fn Scotlafid tfais preilsure is stHl 
mor^ faeavfly feit : indeed it x» not of nnecmt- 
Moa oöcofrr&nce in that coimtry, for cre<Ktor8 
td iose both principal and interest bf theif loftds 

Tkn eauMs not oo!y a great land mihee^iary 
lois in the first inttaticei atyd a cbficiency of 
ißeaiM for ordinary repäir, aiid m^niemmce of 
tbe roads^ but it also discoUrage^ tlm foraiation 
pf new roadisr* Were a better aiid mote eamo- 
BQfical *yftl6tti geuerally adopted and acted lipon , 
mwy great additions and impfotemeiitir of the 
iroiiniitinieations of tbe conntry woüld take^ plaöa, 
iiroBi urbfch,^ at present^ the tatfdholdersr at^ 
idet^rred^ by fear cf the extent of the expe^de, 
fka4 tbe cU^ulty of obtaitittig loäm olmotiey« 

Tbe meMütB cf substituting payemenflil^ fot 
ponvenieut and useful roads, is a kind of doi^ 
perate teiaedy, to wbich igäofahüe hM had 
reoourse. The badness^ ot ncareity of maferiala, 
eannot be ootiMdered a reaidnabk Ixense ; be^ 
eaase the sütne qoantity of stotie f'eqnired fot 
paviiig^ is laily sufficietit to makc^ an excellent 
foad any irhere : and it muift be evident^ that 
tt^tiA material» of the bei^t quality may he pro^ 
jßured at less cost thah pavtng stoil^. 

Thei very bad quality of the grävel round 
1^401^1 0O0ibitled Vith want of skiU and exer* 


titev eiiher to obviate its defeeto» or to {Mr^iif e 
a better material, has induced severat of the 
iiill Vnats, leading from tbat eity,, to bare 
Mceotse to tbe pka of paviiig their roads, ag 
far as their m^aiui will admit* Imtead of ap- 
pljring their ample funds to obtain good mate» 
riab for the roads, they have imported stone 
Irom Scotland^ and hare paved their roads;^ ii^ 
(tti expeiMe ten times greater tban that of the 
«srcdleut read» lately made ob «onoe of the 
a^lyotniDg trmt». Yery few of tbese pavementi 
hft¥e baen so Uid as to ke^ in good order for any 
hngüi of time ; so that a very heavy expense 
has been inenned without any beneficial resült» 
and it i» to be htmeoted that this wasteful aiüd 
kielEeetaal mode is opon the increase in the 
acigUxMrhood of London. 

This pra^tioe has aho be«ti adopted in phioes 
where the same notive cannot be addoeed : ia 
Lamoashire^ almost all the roads are paved at 
ant «ttormpfis oost, and are, in oonseqaence, pro» 
verbially bad. At'Edinburgh, where they haVe 
the best and cheapest materials in the kingdom^ 
the WMjt of seience to eonstruet good roads, has 
lad Uke tmstees to adopt the expedient of pave- 
memllM, to a oonsiderable extent ; and at an ex- 
pense hardly credible, when compari^ with 


whftt wottld have been the eofit ei tooAs on tfac 
best principles. 

"The advantages of good roads,^ when eam* 
pared with pavemeDtaj are univefsally ackiiow«- 
ledged; the exteasion of pavement is therefove 
to be deprecated as an actoal evil, besides the 
greatness of the expence. Fav^nents are par«- 
ticularly ineonvenient and dangerous on gteqp 
ascents, such as the ascent to bridges, &c. A 
very striking exanpiple of tbis may he obserred 
on . the London end of Black-friars Bridge, 
where heavy loads are drawn up with great 
difficalty, and where more horses/all and receiire 
jnjury, tban in any other place in t|ie kingdom. 
'The pavement in sach places should be liftedf 
and converted into a good roadj whieh.may he 
done .with the same stone, at an expense not 
exceeding ten-pence per Square yard, This 
road would be more lasting than the pavement» 
and, when oat of order, may be repaired at less 
tfian one-tenth of the expense which relaying 
the ' pavement would require. 

This measure has been adopted with greät 
successy and considerable saving of expense, in 
the suburbs . of Bristol, where the paveäients 
were taken up, and converted into good roads}, 
about three years ago. 


The advantages of the System recomtneiid^ 
is so obvious to common Observation in the re- 
pair of old roads, and has been practised to an 
extent so considerable, during^ the last four 
years, that the minds of most people haye be- 
eome reconciled to it ; and objections^ foande4 
on old prejudice and suspicion» have given way 
to experience^ bat the applieation of the same 
principles to the construction of new roads, hw 
necessarily been mach more limited. It wiH, 
therefore, reqnire more liberality and conr 
fidence on the part of conntry gentlemen, and 
also more patient investjg^tion of the principles 
on which the System is fonnded^ before they will 
allow of its adoption on new lines of road. It 
is to be hoped, howeyer^ that the importance 
of the snbject wil) recommepd it to geneiral 










THE SELECt COMMITTEE appointed to take inlir 
eoütidentioii Ihe Acte now in force regardingthe ToBii* 
PIKS RoADt and Highwats in Ekolaxd aod Wai.b8» 
and the ezpediency of additional Regulation« for their 
better repair and presenration, and to r^port their Obter* 
▼ations thercupon from time to time to the House ; and to 
wfaom the Petitions of Joseph D. Bassett, John Richards 
Reedy and John Martin ; and of seferal Tnistees of Tum* 
pike Roads in the Counties of Middlesex» Kent, Sunrejr« 
and Süsses, were referred ;— Ha VM, pursuant to the 
Orders of the House» examined the matters to them ro* 
ferred» and have agreed upon the following REPORT : 

YOUR Committee considered it their indispen« 
sable duty to direct their first attention to the 
Reports of former Committees, appointed to in* 
vestigate the aame important snbject ; in these 
Reports, as well as in the documents snbjoined 
to them, are to be found mach scientific infor- 
mation, aud many valuable snggestions, which 
have doubtless tended to aid the prog^ess of im« 
provement in the art of making and preserving 
roads« Still the object of amending the laws 
which relate to them has been unattainedj the 


bills introdoced with a partial view to tliat [mr- 
pose having been lost in their progress through 
Parliament, and tbe suggeatioi^ for more gene- 
ral improvements having been allowed to remain 
withoat further noticei. 

If your Committee may be permitted to as-* 
tifgß tbe probable reasons^ this iimmam^ßoig 
Te&alt ef ti» laboors of tbeir ppedccesMrs, 4bey 
weniM Tetiture io suggest, ihat too wide a fleld 
of inqoiry was tsiken to lead to immediate prac- 
tical bene&t : tbat some of the aystems mast coa* 

fidantly ireat>miinfi»4ad wate oi 9i n&nl^wA ßfß" 
onlaÜYe ^amtwre i tbat tbe reguifttmis nwbiek it 
it»9 prcposed 4e*femid en 4hetti too strongly 
affected the interests of vested {iro{>erty ; and 
tbat even tbe most valitable Information commii- 
nicated to fbe House rested upon ingenious 
tbeoria«» wiiich b«id tben been very pattiidlj» tf 
at alU reduced to practica, or rahmitfced )bo faü? 

Ab the eanttuderationd wbieb iaflmnMd the 
^ppKWiiliBent of tbe pseaent Committee» awow- 
edly 4pning frooa tbe $accessfal tiial of aii va^ 
pro^ed sysiew of lUiakiog roads» yoar C^nusottee 
hai^e judged it r%bt to iostitute a pacticulsir 
exaqaraati^n ioto all l^^e cireuQiaitaaQes of tbat 
«iXjMirim^nt» wd tbe rarious instano^ in wbocb 
tba exAmyl« hm h^m kihweän 

Mr. J^hA hmdim M^AdaiMi tiaviiis iw mansgf 
years directod bis atteiüiQn» as a ma^ktrote aii4 
a C0wmmomr, to the improTavieiit of roada. 
W90 ia^bc^d ta ac0«f>t tbe süaation of geaecal 
Mirveyor of an ^extejiMv^ jUnmi vonod tbe cit^ <«lf 

The admirable state of repair mta wbicb 4ba 
SMda «isder bis dinsotiaii were brpiigbl;» attraeted 
va*y gaaesal atteotkm ; and induoed tbe 0019-^ 
mistton^r» <^ variws dbti?icta lo applj £sr b¥i 
aflsifrtaaoe or advi^» 

Tb^ feneral testioMmy borto to bis e^wiplöto 
success wherever he has been employed, aod ttbo 
p>oef tbat bis improveiaeots ibave beea attcaided 
wHh sMi a<4ttal reductioa ctf ieicpeoa^ white %hey 
bare aSiMrded tbe laost aaaftil eviplayQieat to 1In9 
poai^ iiidace your CosimUtee to attacb a higb 
degree of io^rtaace to diat wbieb he hm 
already accooiplishadi Tbe imitatioii of hl« 
plaas i$ rendeFed easy hy tbeir siinplioity» atid 
by tbe eandour with wbich be has e:^plai«ied 
tbem« thoi^b abUity in tbß suTFe^ior to jadge^ef 
tbeir i^plicatiaa wwt be uadef$tood aaan mtme^ 
tial f eqiiisite« 

¥€Mir Cioomiittee bave dwelt oa tbis improved 
if üto^A of Biakiog roads« as a prelioiinary omAr 
deration to w^ ajiteratioaof the laws» heiagpiMv 
suaded that it ia of esaratial iiiipe«tei»ee toad#iit 


flie lävr to neW circuttistanceis ; that the first siep 
requistte is to take efFectual measures for ensar- 
ing the Jbrmation of good roads ; and that tbeir 
preservatioQ afterwads^ if proper principles for 
theii: repair be once adopted, will require fewer 
legLdative regulatioDs than former inquirers have 
deemed necessary. 

For a fall elocidation of the methods pursued 
by Mr. M^Adam your Committee beg leave to 
refer to bis evidence in the Appendix annexed^as 
well as to that of bis son, and of different Com-^ 
missidners who had witnessed the success of bis 

Bot ibougb yoar Committee bave limited 
tbeir first inquiries to the actual state of the turn- 
pike roads, and the results of recent plans for 
tbeir improvement, they have by no means con- 
fined tbeir researches to the Operations or the 
opinions of one individual. In the evidence 
which they subjoin will be found^ in the first 
place, a description of the present general de- 
fects of the turnpike roadis, given by those whose 
employments and interest render them best ac* 
quainted with the nature and extent of the evil ; 
and this exposition is followed not only by the 
detail of Mr. M'Adam's system, already alluded 
to, but by the evidence of other eminent survey- 
ors and civil engineers, under whose superintend- 


eri€e the latest and mosi perfect improv ements 
have been efifected. 

Your Committee consider that high praise is 
dne to the superior science exhibited by Mr. 
Tdford, in traciog and forming the new roads 
io North Wales j bat they contented themselves 
with a general inquiry into bis plans, aWare that 
their merits would be particularly bronght onder 
the eye of the House in the Reports of the 
Committee on the Holyhead Roads. 

Tlie concurrent testimony of all the witnesses 
examined by your Committee establishes the fact 
that the general state of the tarnpike roads in 
England and Wales is extremely defective, but 
'afk the same time proves that proper manage* 
ment is alone wanted to effecc the most desirar 
ble reformation. It is not the least interesting 
result of the reseärches of your Committee^ that 
the most improved system is demonstrated to be 
the most economical ; that even the first effectual 
repair of a bad road may be accomplished with 
little, if any, increase of expenditure ; and that 
its futare preservation in good ol'der will, under 
jodicious management, be attended with a con- 
siderable annual saving to the public. , 

There is no pointupon which a more deeided 
coincidenqe of opinion exists amongst all those 
who profess what may now be called the science 



of road-making, than that iht iirst effectual step 
towaids general improveipent must be the em- 
ploytnent of p^rsons of superior ability and ex- 
perience as superintending' sarveyors. 

Your Committee, fully concnrring in tbis 
opinion, have anxiously considered in what man- 
Ker tfaift object can be attained with the least 
expense to the country» and the least injarioos 
or ofiensive interference with existing customs 
and authoriüesu 

Variöus are the plans -wfaich have been 
brought under their consideration tot altering 
the general Constitution of the laws affecting 
the management of Tornpike Roads, proposikig 
either to annex the superintendence and patrott- 
•ge fco some of the existing departments of 
"OoTernment, or to constitote a new Board of 
Commissioners expressly for this object. 

Your Committee forbear to detail the reasobs 
wbich indoce tbem to withhold tbeir Recom- 
mendation from any of these plans, whatever 
adrantages they might afford in unity or vigour 
of management. 

They are of opinion, that many important 
reasons exist for leaving generally the dinection 
of the affairs of Uie different tumpike tmsts in 
the hands of their respective Commi«sioners, 
whose experience, character and interest, afibrd 


the best pledg^es öf ability, attenticm aüd eeo^ 
fiomy« If yoor CominiUee think it necessary 
to propose, in one respect^ an interference with 
their appointnients, it by no means proceeds 
from any diatrust of their judgEtent or integrity. 
Tbe dnties of a head surveyor demand 
•snitable educatio» and talants. Thesa qualifr- 
ottian» must be fairly remunerated ; and it i» 
evident^ tbat the limited extent of the funds of 
Turnpike Trusts, in generale do not afGord tbe 
means of paying to such an ofiicer an adeqnate 
salary. The difiiculty naight in many instances 
be obyiated by voluntary associations» hut where 
the System is wisfaed to be universal, it ougbt 
not to be left to so precarious a dependence. 
' The plan to which your Committee, aft^r 
füll consideration, are disposed to give tlm 
preference, is that of empowering the magi»* 
trates of every eounty» assembled in quarter 
sesfidons, to appoint one or more surveyors gecie- 
ral^ who shall have the superintendence and 
management of the turnpike ros^ds within tbe 
county, under the authority and direction of the 
Commissioners of the different trusts. It is 
not necessary at present to enter on the detailed 
regulations by which the executive duties of 
such an officer should be prescribed, so as to 
keep them under the deliber ative control of the 

B 2 


Commissioners^ whose meetings he should at- 
tend, and to whom he should aniformly report 
on the improvements and alterations he may 
wish to recomniend within their trusts. 

Your Committee are of opiuion, that the 
most eligible mode of paying the salary of this 
officer would be by an uniform rate per luile 
upon all the roads within the county ; to be 
fixed by the magistrates at quarter sessions^ and 
paid from the funds of the respective trusts. 

The success of this plan of appointing gene- 
ral coanty surveyors will, in a great degree, 
depend upon the firmness evinced by the magis- 
trateSy in laying aside every consideration of 
personal favour, and impartially looking to in- 
tegrity, talents, and energy of character, as the 
recommeudations for office; some skill in the 
science of an engineer should also be regarded 
as a valuable qualification. 

Your Committee have manifested their gene- 
ral disinclination to any interference with the 
honourable and gfatuitous discharge of the 
funetions of the Commissioners of Turnpike 
Trusts j in one instance, however, they are 
disposed to depart from the principle whicb 
they have recommended. A füll consideration of 
the evidence relative to the defective State, and 
injudicious maüagement of the roads round the 


Metropolis, and of the advantages in^.hicb would 
accrae from a consolidation of the numerous 
smaH Trusts into which they are most incon- 
Yeniently divided» induce your Committee to 
express to the Hou&e their strong recommend- 
ation, that a special Act of Parliament may be 
passed for uniting all the Trusts within a dis- 
tance of ,about ten miles round London under 
one set of Commissioners. It is to these roads 
that the heaviest complaints made by the coach* 
masters, and the surveyor of mail coaches under 
ihe post-ofBce, principally apply .; and whether 
an improvement is to be effected by the im- 
portation of flint, and other common materials, 
or by laying granite pavement in the centre or 
sides of the roads^ it is evident that^ << the 
measure to be performed in an economical and 
efficient manner, must be done upon an extend« 
ed Scale ; it mu^t become one interest, directed 
by one select body of men, of weight, ability, 
and character/* 

It is the object of the recommendation of 
your Committee to rend^ the roads round the 
Metropolis a pattern &ri the kingdom, by the 
introduction of th^'^^most judicious system x>f 
formation and repair^ which will thus be brought 
under general inspection ; and the spirit of 
improvement>.radiating from thit centre, may 




be expected to ^read with rapidity thrmigiioat 
tlie country, and to diffuse ** tliofie incalcidaUe 
public and private ad v antares," which a fomer 
Committee anticipati^d from the accomplishineiit 
,of this great national object. 

Your CoHiiKiittee are dieepiy sensible of the 
eoasideratioti due to the persons wbose property 
is invested in the fands of Ihese Trosts, as wdl 
as to those who tiow aet as CkMnmisskmora« 
They are perfeetly aware of the jealoui^ witb 
which the House may yiew aoy propMition 
for the creation of new offiees of patoonage aad 
prolit; and they do not disguise their coa- 
Tiction, that it will be found expedient to r^ 
munerate those efficient Commi^ioners who are 
eicpected to devote tbeir time to the performr 
aace of active duties. 

Your Committee however anticip^e^ that if 
^he House shall approve the formatioDi of ^ 
Board of Commissioners for this objecto they 
will deem it proper to place at its bead some 
persons of eminent Station and character, as a 
ßecurity for the indepeudence aod respectability 
pf its proceedings. 

AU these consideratk>as certainly require ^au- 
tious deliberation, and delicacy in arraaging the 
plan; but your Committee feel confident that 
the wisdom and judgment of the House w^U 




fiad the inean$ of snrmcMiniing the difficalliet^ 
without injustice, or hazardoiis Innovation. 

It » obvious> that the fprmation of this dis« 
tinct central aathority will be best effeeted by 
the introduction of a separate Bill, while tbe 
plan of empowering 'the magistrates to appoint 
coanty srarveyor$ would naturally form part of 
a g^eneral Bill fbr ameoding the laws relatmg 
to Tnrapike Roads. 

Your Oomfnittee have weigbed, with «ucii 
attention, th^ comparative advantages of an 
attempt to amend tbese laws by sapplemenlal 
enaotm^Rts, and of the comprebensive plan of 
endeavowing to embody in one Act of Parlia- 
ment all that is valaable in the old law«, with 
the oddition of sach new regalations as ar^ 
acknowledged to be desirable. 

The Committee of 181 i were itnpressed'witk 
the expedience 0t ^* combining the old and 
new i'egnlations into one general code, divided 
into two braoches, one regarding the Qigb« 
^^s, and the other regarding Tumpike Roads/' 
thongh tfaey considered that ** it wonld roquire 
faore Cime and labonr than those who have not 
Ikad >some experience in the drawing np of suoh 
laws can he at all aware of/' 

Yoor Committee do not hesitace to av#w Hveir 
opinion, tliat unless this task, bowever ardiions 


be äccomplished, the laws relating to roaäs miMt 
remain in an incomplete, uncertain, and incon? 
venient state. They cannpt doubt that the 
fiouse will agree witb them that the proulotion 
of such a measnre is deserving of legal a^aistance 
OD the part of his Majesty's goyemment^ to 
those who are disposed to applj their time and 
attention to the undertaking ; and they indulge 
the hope> that if the House shall think fit to re- 
appoint a Committee for the sanie objectin the 
next Session of Parliament, much may be found 
do;ne for the preparatlon of such a bill.-' 

Yonr Committee themselves have not been 
inat|;eotive to many of tbe amendments which 
they think it ought to embrace, some of which 
they proceed to particularize for tbe considerr 
ation of those members whose attention may be 
drawn to the subjeet of this Report. 

There is no object which appears more deserv* 
mg of regulation tban the expenjse attending 
the passing and renewing of Tumpike Acts. 
This raight be lesseiied by comprising in a gene- 
ral Act such customary clauses as are applicable 
to all trustSy and by dispensing with the attend- 
anpeof witnessesin London to prove the notices 
reqoired by the Orders pf the House; but a still 
- greater advantage would be gained by extend- 
ing the period of the duration of these ActSj and 


|K)WidiDg for their rene wal withoat tfae payment 
of fees. 

A general commutation for Statute laboor 
appears jLo be reqniredi both for public ad* 
y Wtage and private conyepience. The amouut 
of x^ouiposition might be levied as a rate; and it 
will become a subject of consideration, whether 
some better principle may not be laid down for 
apportioning tbe money thus coUected betweeu 
t,h^ high ways and turnpike roadst 

The adyimtage of authori;sing parish officeri 
to contract with the commissioners for the repair 
of the roads pas^iog through the parish by la- 
bourers belonging to it, has been strongly press- 
ed pi| the attention of your Committee^ but 
tbpogh they are disposed to admit that such a 
System may ofteo afford desirable relief to the 
parishes, they are not equally satisfied that it 
will have a tendency tp prompte the improve- 
ment of the roads. They think it right to bring 
the proposition under the consideration of the 
IJouse» though they are top diffident of its Utility 
to venture tp add to it their recommendation. 

It seems generally admitted» that the present 
.exemptipn9 from toll granted tp brpad-wheeled 
Waggons require to be revised, as the enormou§ 
weights which they carry render them more de- 
^tructive to th^ m^terials of the ipads th^n th<nr 

74 ^' 

nnppoaed advaiitege in conMliduting^tlieM caa 
compensate. Without entering into the yet «iih 
stttled coMtroversjr respecting the superior utilky 
of conicaly barrelled, or cjlMrical wkeek, fer 
the fNMrpose of dravghty H ia perfqctly evident, 
that the narrow part of the rarface Qpon whicb 
wkeeis of the two first descrtptions meet llie 
gniMd, caBttot gire them the advantage of (he 
iK^er. As «OOD as mpolitic exemptfons shaU 
be abolished, and the toHs he regulated upon all 
caPta mid ^ftgg^s^ with wheels ef u moderate 
t|p«dth, in propoitioii either to the wetght earried, 
or the mimber <4 horaes, there wiU no longer be 
the aanie temptation to carry exceBsi ve leads ; 
and it is p<robal>le that a new practke, regulated 
hy private interest, niay render it unneeessary 
to limit the M^eight allowed to be tah^n* 

Sime i^gulatiom appear to be absolately 
reqoired ia respect to ibe condact of toll- 
k^eperB, B/ad the liabihty of rentere, for the 
pfiiialtiei Mipoeed on tkeir ser^rants. 

Yoer C!<MHmi(btee have tkkVHß notioed a few of 
tho«e objects of aaiendnieiit which bave present- 
ed tliemscilreB to dieir <^on8idemtion. To red«ce 
tbeee and oither proposi^d improTe«ient$ into 
pvuper Com^^-to digesrt the varioiis proviaima of 
(Milien A ct s to exponge wkat is «seless or in- 
)«riew,~to reooiKile wkat is contradictory— to 


re-model and arrange what is sonnd and usefut, 
will reqaire the assistance of the best legal 
judgment. Your Committee however, after 
having thus availed themselves of the power 
granted by the hoose, of reporting the partial 
result of Üieir investigations, will continue to 
make such inquiries, and to collect such mai- 
tßrialsy as may pave the way for the apcomplish- 
ment of that important undertaking. 

It will at once be seen, that they have con- 
fined themselves to one brauch of tjfe work com- 
mitted to them, having conceived it to be naore 
judicious not to distract their own attention and 
that of the House by too many subjects of in- 
quiry, but tp pursue that which they first under- 
jtook to a practical result, 

Should the House adopt their recobin^pda-r 
tion of renewing the Comnaittee in adliiep 
Session, the subject of the Highways will natu- 
rally engage their attention as soon as they shall 
l^ave fuUy matnred jthe plan for amending the 

26th June, J819, 




Martis, 2° die Martii, 1819: 


Charles Johnson, Esq* p, 81 

Mr. JViUiam Waterhouse . . - . . . 84 

Mr. WiUiam Home S6 

Mr, John Eames . . n .... 92 

Veneris, 2P die Maij : 

Mr. George Botham Ö* 

Jovis, 4** die M artij : 

John Loudon M^Adam, Esq, . . . « 9($ 

Martis, 9* die Martij : 

John Loudon M^Adam^ Esq, . • .117 

Jovis, IP die Martij : 

Jcihn Loudon M^Adam, Esq. • . . • . 134 

James M^Adam, Esq. . . . • • 136 

Col. Charles Br&om . 144 

EzeJeiel Harman^ Esq. . • . . .145 

Thomas Bridgeman, Esq. • • • . % 146 

John Martin CrippSy Esq. . . . • ibid. 

W. Dofwdemdlf Esq 148 

Martis, 23^^ die Martij : 

Mr. Benjamin Farey 150 

John Farey f Esq. . • . . J 154 


Joyis^ S5® die Martij : 

John Fareyf Esq. • • • . ^ • t67 

Jamet Walker, Esq. . . ... .165 

. • N 

Martis, 80° die Martij : 

Jamet Walker j Esq 181 

Jovis, V die Aprilis : 
Mr.JameiDean • • * • • .182 

Jovis, 6** die Maij : 
Thomas Td/ard, Esq. . • • • 187 

Martis, 1 P die Maij : 

Mr. Robert Perry . ; .... 195 

ABSTRACT of Retum of Tun^ike Roadi round 

London . • . 196 


Martis, 2^dieMarHj\ 1819. 

lo the Chair. 

^ Charles Johnsony Esquirei called in; and £xamined. 

YOU are surveyor and saperintendent of msai coaches linder 
the Post Master General ?— Yes. 

How long have you held that office? — Not twelye momhs 

Has your attention been dtrected» in the ex«cution of the du- 
ties of that office, to the State of the tnmpike roads thitm^hout 
the kingdom ?— -I have given a general attention to the sobject, 
and I have had occasion» of coune, to gire particular attention 
to it» when complaints have been made of loss of time. 

In what State of repsur do you consider the tumpike roads to 
be» generally throughont the kingdom ?— I certainJy (as far as I 
have had an opportunity of inspecting them) consider, that al- 
most all the roads might be improved ; bat there are very few 
instances in which I should häre thoaght it necessary to adyise 
the Post Mäster General to interfefe» except in the more imme- 
diate neighbourhood of London. 

It is not th^ practice of the Post-office to interfere in the aaode 


yoo mention, hj indictmeat, unlets the cfil hat ariten loa terf 
great pitch ?*— Not uotil it has ariaen to a very considerable eviL 
Do yoa cootider that tbe general defeqtiFe atate {f the road 
ariaea from any locai disadraDtagea, or from miamanageinent io 
regard to the funds, or the application of materials ?— That 
qneation ioTolTea ao many ronaJdfratJQnfc that I hanlly know 
liow to gm an aoawer to it ; bot I thiok, that in general onr 
may obaenre a great want of that akill in foiming the road and 
kee|nng it in repair^ which is rery obvioos in aome parta of the 

Do yoa cooaider that the defecta you hare mendoned m the 
neighbonriiood of London, ari^ from any locd diaad^antages, 
or from the roada been vorse managed ? — It ia generally nnder« 
atood that in the neig^hbourhood of London they bare not ao 
good materiaJa to repair the roada with, being chiefly gra^el ; 
bat I think I may say, that there ia certainly a want of attention 
and of care« 

Have yoo known inatancea in tbe neighbo^i^Of^i^ ^ J^pp^^m 
where better roads bare been obtaioed hf ai^prioir iJPSIWPfffi^^ 
*-*In dte early put of the winter we were an<|^ ao^ljL gr^ ^- 
ficoltiea with respect to the Exeter mail coachy that I waa nn^d 
the necesaity of applying to the Egbam tn)^. I^ yfß^ ^ 4^t 
tone leported to me, that the vhole tow9 of iJghgiQ M l>ffl| 
corered with gravel aaaifted, eight or niae im^^^^i^^ ^ABl ^ 
to aide; the conac^oeoce of that waa» that tfee wM ^mk 1^ 
fen, fifteen^ or twenqr miantea every'aigbt. Tj^e WI^CpT^ 
afterwarda to nnderatand that the commiaaiQnfrf h^d put ^t |ar- 
ticnlar road ander thecare of Mr. M^AdWt ^ ^^ 49^ ^ 
hsLjt no aort of occaaion whatever to complftio üf «t? 

Generally apeaking»do you conaidffthft^lhe wäß ^ ^l^l^iSifA 
more by the bad State of the roada in the n^^iffibquxhfiq^ qf I^Dt-. 
don than elsewhere fr-They certainly hav/^ I9<¥« <ü|i^(öri4r V^ 
paaaingto and from London for4hefirt]^fiftyor9ii|Jae°^>^ U)|I!>1 
ia ahnoat any other part of the country. hi»M ^WfiHf.^^ 


iuräe^^tiie* bcairaeat weigbts, aod tl»eitefi>ra it t« very desiraUe 
üiat,tbe*road8 near town shouldbe uther better» thaa* worae tSiao 

Hatyour atteiittoa been particidarly. directed to the ttate of 
ifac roads in other paru of • tbe kin^m latdy ?<— I travelied & 
cooaidcrablg distaoce bat autonui in the nortK of England. Qxx* 
taialy.I coiisidored the roads that I pasaed over there» to be very, 
auperior- in geoeral ito wbat they are in the firat hundred milea. 
frodcdie metropolia. Subieqgiently to that» I have had oqcaaion 
to travel throughout North Wales,, and 1 gave particulac attcntigg 
to the Holyhead line of road, 

By what road?-»By Coventry. The roada which are^ f^offd. 
in North Wales are remarkably good» and in my homble opinionbr 
show great science in the fbrmation of them. The new roads I 
mean.. The mateiials; in that coontry are of ooHfae verydgood. 
Od tfais side of Birmingfiani*. which is also. the roadto^I^ifer- 
pooI» there is great occasion to oo^^>lain, particularlyfrom^DnPi^ 
charch to Daventry. At this time that road is in a Tery. negr 
kiCted State» very heavy, narrow> ^d Uocked u|i|< by banki^ of 
drift. I have had occasion to apply to that trust, but I do not 
leam. that any thing.has been done. 

Have ypu found the System of indictment afFord any eifectiiM 
remedy for the evils which you have had cai^se to obsiirveaB that 
wayj— -I tlunk ve have. Qat. there havie been very, it^ i^dict- 
ments preferred for some years past ; the postmaster general^npt right to presa upon the districts during, the seasoo. of 
agricultural distress. I should say, we do not consider that W% 
reason» at piesent» for abstaining. 

Have you experienced from<the comroissipoers» a diaposition» 
generally».to attend to such conaplaints as you have found occa- 
sion to make \ — Such applicatioas as I have had occasion to mak^ 
app^ to have been very wcU receive,4 ; but I canpot say, tliat Jq^ 
maojt.iiMtaQ^es the roads have been much, improved, I ^ill ac*«c[ 
tQ this aaswr», that I lately passed Ofer the road frpm, Oxford 

F 2 


e&rough Henley to London; tnd although that ison^s^ef dVe 
rbads complained mach of> it is certainly, at thi< tnuC) in a reiy 
improper State. 

In such cases do you not follow up your measures by stronger 
proceeding8,by indictment ? — I thisk that in thit caseit would be 
necessary to renew oor appHcations, and perhaps to proceed by 
indictment; bat I have considered it prudent not to interfere, 
chiefiy in contemplation of the proceedings of this Coinmittee« 
' From what you have seen of the new roads in Wales» do you 
not conceive that nearly all the tumptke roada in England are 
capable of very considerable improrement, by an application of 
equal skill in the disposition of the materiak employed upon 
them ?— I certainly do. 

Mr. WilUam Waterhouset called in ; and Examined. 

YOU keep the Swan «with-two-Nccks in Lad-lane ? — ^I bc- 
long to the premises; I don't keep the hoase $ I am the coach- 

¥oa are the proprietor of many mail and other coacfaes ?— I 
y As the proprietor of mail and stage coaches, has your atten* 

\ tion been directed to the State of the roads orer which they 

trayel? — ^Yes, ithas. 

Inform the Committee whether you think the roads are in 
auch a State of repair as they might be, under proper manage- 
ment^ with the advantages they possess ?— Taking them gene- 
rally, I thisk they are not« 

Do you consider that the amount of the tblls at present 
1-eceived would be sufficient to place them in a State of good re- 
pair, under proper managementr — From what information I 
havt been abfe to obtain of the sums which the gates are Jrt for 
iipon several tnists, it is my opinion that the money so receiTcd 
ib^ quite sufficient to put them in a very good State. For inittäace^ 
thete is one trust, wkich is called the Darentry trust» leadiag 


fiwn OU Säatford to Duncharch ; their tollt« I uoderstand» 
prodace more thaD 100/. a mile per annam. Very littie imp^cnr&f 
meat has been made in that trost ; and the roads are very ttnaafe« 
aod in a bad condition altogether. 

Do you consider that that arises £rom want of proper materialtf 
or want of . proper skül in mdung use of themi — From both« 
The materialt that they have in that neighbourhood, in myopi- 
aiont are not gopd; and the people that they emplc^ upon the 
roads are not equal to .the task« and therefore they are very muck 
negkcted* The jurreyors and the men that work under them 

;^'e insufficjent« 

Do you know of any instances where similar diaadvantages 
have been rarmounted by proper skill and ingenuity ? — I beliere 
I can State that upon one parttcular trust that has been the case, 
I belleve they call it the UocklifFe trust. It is but a short 
distance» but very g^eat improvements haye heen made upon it 
The great improvements that have been made tfaere, I am in- 
ibrmod by several of the commissioners, have been done through 
ihm: skilful and attentive surveyors. They have improved that 
trust very much indeed. I believe I can mention another road 
Ottt pf London that has been much improved, I mean the Essex 
;road, (their surveyor being a clever man, and competent to un- 
derstand bis business^) between Whitechapel chürch and Brent- 


Ate there any parttcular defects in the management of the 
roads generally» which you think might be remedied« that you 
can point out to the Committee ? — In the first place» there may 
be great improvements by the proper formation of the roads« I 
know, in some places, particularly from here down to Cplaey» 
where there is a clayey bottom, and upon that line of road there 
.are a great many land Springs ; those Springs frequently work up 
.through the gravel, and injure the road very materially. When 
that is the case I consider that they should under-drain the road, 
and take away these land Springs, which would be the means of 

htmog tlie i^ads ^rm and tiard^ much harder ^an they ^p 

'la 4t not a common defect to place the gravd 09 tlie "rDäd 
^thout being j^ufficiently aiftedor waahed ^— ^Veiy-mudh^eö. 

if>o yoy not oonsfderit aa a'bad aystem, lik^wke» to place >the 
gravel ao much in the centre of the road, thereby reoderkig it 
pf 'too great con?exity ?-r^e8^ certainly. I thmk it is iaid 
geceri^ly tpoiliiqk and teo high in the middle. There ia «^ 
fseceaaity for the roada being ronnded ao much. 

^Ha^ you4£nown any accidenta to iiave arisen from ^e «teep- 
pesa of the road ?r— Yea ; seyeral accidenta with my coachea^ aa 
ivlll aa tboee pf other people» in consequence of the rpad beinj^ 
fald-ao very high in the middle. 

4a «et that ahape pf the road likewiae attesded with a dtaad«- 
^rantage in ihe drafl of the carriage ?-t— I consid^ it so, inasmucti 
«a it^ngathe weight too fnuch on one aide. 

Ia not a great losa stistained by the proprietora pf atage 
'«AacheSy m conaequence of the 'badneaa of the roads, in the 
^weariog OQt of their horaea ?— ^Yea ; pardcularly ao the firat Sfty 
f»' aixty milea fironi London. 

*l^th regard to the Performance of teme by the mail coachea^ 
tfio you £nd l!iat yoii labpur under giseater dÜficulty on the roada 
«ear London» than on ibhoae at a greater distance from town ?-^ 
I am certain we dp« It requirea a greater quantity of horaea tp 
|>erfbrm the diity, and, in my optniony it requirea ten horses to 
ferfofm the aame number oi mHea fbr the first fifty out of Lon- 
d€M)» that might be done by eight^ with the aame apeed, be3rond 
-that tHatance« 

f a thae any difierence in die yalue ef the horaea used near 
town and at a distance from it ?— ^I canbuy horsea at 157. apiece 
fhat will perfoim the duty^ at a diatance from London^ equal to 
«hoae that we are obliged to give SO/, a piece fbr, on the ave- 
rage, for the woi'k near town. . . 

Ar« you in the faabit of workug coaches to a greater distance 


Am fftf «tSef (rartr Lendott ?^Noi att ffab tiint 9 Ilni« wmlied 
eoaebei n« far «• oiie handr&d mile^ dtstaitee from Loifdim» tadb 
I alwaft foidiid there that eiglit horaes would fetkffm at miaiijr 
miJea as ten» the firatfiftj miles out of London. 

Hflve fiot dbc tdls ^ery arach iocreased of late y«arf ander 
mw Mta of parlknMDt ?-^It ia my opmion that the tolia generaBj^ 
teftf dOi^led «hhifl these latc fifteen years« 

Htff» ihie i^oada impvofed ifl any degfee ki die aantf propotw 
4iMf^N6^ chey bavtf not. 

Have JQH «alcttlated the average rate per mile which a coacifef 
wxth foor lierses pay« for toll ? — I have : It is my opmion that 
the ayeiüg« attMot «hroughout üie kingd»» is S^d. per mile.; 
iit was above Sä, when I took them above twelve months ago. 

Do y<Pi find ehat ttie horaes weair oot In a ittudi flihorter Space 
jöf thtte, ixt ^Kxrlditg coaCheS ^bhi the fir^ fifly ttüds fitom 
liondon« than they do Iower down ?-— Yes they do very mucfa; 
We eafctifate that otnr stock of horses» ediployed in workidg thie 
firit fifty milea out of Londbri» tioH not !ast more than femr 
yeanr; fathetoutrtry, at a greac^ distance, I befiel they eal- 
^oittedfat thdr stock, on an ayerage, ivill last six yeart. 

Aieyott a6t füiecjuendy ohKged to^ put dz hor«ea Uk fatkt 
ÜttsidhöUf Off int roads from' l«ondon SS-«-9on)^6thnea iftat i)S' the 
case i we do work with six horses where the roads are bad and 
htat9f. I may say^ from die knoMviedge I ha? e of ohe partknlar 
rcisrf^ noAiely» kom I^ndon eo Birminghamff ifr reines cwelt4 
Irorsetf fio perferra the same nomber of miles aa^eight hoUt$ wM. 
1^ Ikdfwe«»' Bincabgham aMd Hdy headf, 

How many coach*4kOf sea do you keep f.«»Aboue feto- hveti^ 

Am f^ acfiakKei* iHdi die ne# roaA Itt Moitft Wdlsi^ 
kf Mf. telib»4?<-^Yea, 1 anv. 

Do'yoiy diiiik tta thwe of ycMir hone» wöuldf draPv/ dte'Hoiy. 
ktaAwttak a« eaaily m those roada as foor of thcim di» die same 
CttKh 00 aBf part of thtf itMM} from LiftartoihttP Pw MJhmfc f^ 
I have no doubt aboat it« 


Does dMC artse from the constructtoD of the road» or natitr» 
of the materialsj or both ?— Both* The constructioo of the aew * 
N»d is eKtraordinarily good, and the materials also are very 

Can you State what particular. cooatniction thoae roads are off 
•^^Tbey ane laid in a form sufficiently roand to wash themtelvet« 
if there is a shower of rain that comes upon them« They are 
not very high ; and their excellence consists in the smailness of 
the coDvexity. They are in the best form I haye ever seen roads 

Mr* WtlKam Home^ called in ; and Examiaed. 

... You keep the Golden Cross Inn, Charing Gross ?f— Yes. 

. Ypu are the proprietor of many mail and stage coaches?-^ 

I am. . 

^ Your attention of course has been direpted tp the State of ^e 

roads pver which they traye]?-f-It has. 

.; C^ you inform the Committee in ivhat State the roads gene-f 

rally are, in point of goodness?-»! think iqi general they have 

been better for the last seyen years than formerly, though they 

are now badf T^cy are gcnerally bad» aqd might be yery mucb 


Can you State to the Committee any particular instances of 
improyement that haye taken plape within your own knowledge? 
/r**Yes; one betweeo London and Hounslow, which must be 
known to eyery body to haye been yery bad ; that road has beeo 
j)[)a4e goody which was ext^emely b^d before, 

Do you consider that the applicatioi^ of the materials upon 
that road is at present good?r-Yes. It is the heiter construc- 
don of the road, together with the dif&rent materials from what 
they used fprmerly» which haye been the means of making that 
road better» They haye brpught chalk and flints from Kent by 
.|hp jPAoaly and haye got tbem at as small an expense as grayel | 

tnd tbete hiure formed a hard wdl-hoand road, which wat fer* 
nierly bad. 

lipon what othet roads do your coacbes travel?— I will meo- 
äon ooe which is precisely the contrary» the Uxbridge road. 

Gnurel is usually «mployed on that? — Solely gravel, and the 
road is veiy flat. It is made lower than the fields» which draws 
the water upon it» aäd therefore it canoot be drawn o£F from it« 
That is the chief cause of the road being so bad* 

Is it not the practtce upon that road to pile up the scrapings 
or drift by the nde of thie road ?— It is. 

Within your experience» do you consider that the goodness 
of the roads is at all in proportion to the local advantages or dis- 
adyantages ; or haye you foimd that the skill apd experience of 
the sunreyors employed upon them have effected pardcular im« 
provements ? — They chiefly depeod upon having good suryeyors. 
The Pover road will show that more than any other road I 
Imow of^ I can remember that within these seven yearsy what 
was then called <<The Sun in the Sands'' has been made a Tery 
good road. That road was all loose and sandy: |Jiey have 
drained it» and it is now a very good road. 

Can you State under whose superintendence that road is 
placed^'— Mr. Collis's. He is now employed on the 3rightOQ 
road, efiecting the same sort of improvement; reducing hills« 
and making the road good. 

. Do you find that the roads on which your coaches travel, are 
mdch worse in the neighbourhood of London than the more 
distaot parts ? — ^I find them worse for coaches near London, bat 
it may be attributed. partly to the greater quantity of travelling 
near London to whatthere is ii^ the country. 

Are the horses that you employ in the stages near London of 
superior value to those that are employed at a greater distance ? 
— -It differs accordiog to the carriage. I think with. the stage 
coaches, the hörses out of London are considerably more in 
value than thpse employed. at a greater distance fiom London; 


aftd M tö ttuifl coathet, «&/ «nflr/o« lo the coimtry, tlie day 
stock of the cosches is rery gpod, but in the night they work 
ttetti very badty;. 

Do you find that yottr hortet that are employed in the 9tag69 
sitv London, v^ar out sooner than those at a greater dittanee? 
*— Much tooner, t should thinlt. I employ about fodr huodmi 
hortet mytelfy aod I am ture I b^ otte hondred and fißy a year 
to tupport the number, and keep the ttodi in order. I conttder 
ihat my ttock wears out fally in thrce yeart. 

How much longer on an average, will hortet iatt at t ditcatu^ 
ftom town ? — I thoüild think doubfe the time : bc thete reatont ; 
firtt, the work it lighter, aad next, the foöd it better; betidei 
which, the lodgiog of them it better; the ttablet are ahy and 
more healthys they have not so often diseaiet in the country aa 
we hare in London. 

Are you in the faabit of workiog coachet to any great distance 
from London?—! work them half way to Brittol; with Mr. 
)Pickwick of Bathy I work to Newbury. 

Do you know whether the hortet that am employed ttill 
lower down upon that road, are coosidered to have lighter or 
beafier work?— -I should not keep Urger bortet fbr that work 
inyself ; I thoi^ keep thort-Iegged hortet^ becaose of the hilli« 

Which are of lest raloe ?-- Yet. 

Speaking generally, if the tarne ^dfl and inanagement that 
you have mentioned in particular distriett were generally em- 
pioy^f do you not thmk that the foai» of England and WaAet 
migbt be pa into a feiy perlect ttate of repmr )-*-I think, chtit 
psA beiter directioii at to managemenf, they laigfct be put iitD 
a much better State of rcpaio at tbe aame c0tt, than thty wtm 
are^ There it a road, cailed the North-eattt Road (the way 
tfaifc the Edinburgh nail come%) which it mvck inproved 
ktdy» aod wvlhout aay great ezpente* 

Uadbr whme ■Kttagenimt is that foad ?— Of a Mr« Clay» 
}t \m bce» doK by roili^ tbc load^ aad baakiB|^ the gpnYd t« 


a certain size» aot putting it on too large or too small ; and 
Xaking care to tarn the road well. If the read iB laot tarned 
iwell, it nevei will be gogd. 

This roHer 19 a Ute invention, is it not?~-It is. It iropresses 
the gravely or whatever the raaterial is, into the ground, before 
ilie road is scraped; theo they proceed to scrape it and take the 
alush ofT; this rojls down |;he well. 

Aüd firom your experience, you haye eyery reason tp beliere 
that itlsof great adyantage to the road? — ^I have worked the 
Tybuni rpad, and the White Gross roads, whicfa were as bad as 
the Tytmrn tili this practice has been introduced. 

Do you know any thtng of the Reading road, which Mr. 
M'Adam has hs^l the superinteadeDce of ?— It is a very har road ; 
it 18 £he best piece of road ijQ that direction« 

patf yoa anform the Committee the weights you are accus- 
tomed to carry jupon the difFerenc descriptions of carriages, mail 
coaches, post coaches, and heavy coaches ? — ^The post coach 
loaded 18 38 cwt. weight ; H is oever more than two toos, The 
mail coach also is not more thao two tens, I should thiok. As 
to heavy coachesi I only work two of that descriptioo out of the 
40 coaches that are in my own yard ; they are so little used, thät 
they don't generally weigh more than the post coach ; they doo't 
carry so much l^ggage. 

What is the weight of the heavy coach ?•— Not more than the 
posty because they don't carry so much luggage as some of the 
post coaches* I reckon 12 passengers one ton> coach one ton^ 
and luggage half a ton. 

Haye you known of any accidents to your coaches arising 
frofm the great convexity of the roads in the neighbourhood of 
^ndon ?— -I have had accidents, and they have sometimes been 
attributed to the horses shyiag, and plunging the coach on one 
side, so as tp cause it to oyertiMD; frpm the great roandness pf 
the road 


Mr. Johm £«Mer,called ia; and ExamioedL 

You keep the White Horse, Fetter-lane» and are the proprie* 
tor of the Angel Inn, St. Cleroeot*8 ?— Yes. 

You are the proprietor of several mail and stage coaches ?-* 

How many horsei ^o you keep ? — About three hundred. 

What are the prindpal roads you are in the habit of working 
from London ? — ^We work the Canterbury» the Cambridge, the 
Dover, the Norwich, the Portsmouth, and some others. 

Po you find that you sustam much inconyenience from the 
itate of the roads oyer ivhich you travel? — ^Yes. As to incon- 
venience, I find much more in the neighbourhood of London 
than the more distant parts* 

How bng do you find that your horses upon an average laa^ 
that are e^ployed in the first stages from London ?— My horses» 
upon an average, don't last above three years in the fast coaches« 

Induding the mails ?— Yes. 

And those horses in the neighbourhood of London, are of 
greater value than those employed at a distance? — ^They are. 

Upon an average, how long do the horses last that are em- 
ployed in the more distant parts?— They last as long again. 

Do you attribute that in a great degree to the badness of the 
roads in the neighbourhood of*LondoD?-«-I attribute itto the 
distress the horse receives from the badness of the roads near 
town ; but I attribute it also in a great degree to the meeting of 
different carriages, and crossing the road^ which makes it more 
laborious to the horse, though he does not appear to go so many 

Do you not consider that that particular evil is occasioned in 
a great degree by the convexity of the roads in the neighbour- 
hood of London, the materials being generally heaped up in the 
middle? — I do; it << tears their hearts out,'' as the coachmen ex- 

presfl it. The roads are inconvenieQt from the quantity and 
qoality of fhe grarel heaped in the middle, 

Have you known any instance« in which a düFerent System has 
been pursued, and the roads greatiy improved» in the neighbour- 
hood of London ? — The road from London to Cranfbrd Bridge 
has been improved of late, and from London to Hounslow mor« 
pkrticularly» in consequence of the pavement in the crown of the 
roady which hafi done away with the gravelling, or shingle rather. 
Is not the gravel upon that road generaUy employed without 
sifting or washing ? — It is half clay. 

Haye you known instances in which this inconvenience has 
been remedied by superior skill and experience in the sunreyor 
of the roads ?-»Yes; in the same Hne of road that Mr. Home 
referred to ; in the Kent road particolarly. 

If that same skill was employed in the application of materials 
to the other roads, do you not think that they might be brought 
generally to the same State of improvement ?«-I have no doabt 
of it; there is no question about it. The Surrey road has been 
improved on the same principle* 

What do you call the Surrey road? — From London to 

Do you know under whose management that is? — Idon't 
knowDOw; a person named Baker had the management of it« 

Was it under him it was impr«ved ? — ^Yes. 

How many miles of road does that consist of ? — ^Thirty miles. 

And it 18 very much improved ?— Yes. 

By what means ? — ^The materials are harder than the gravel. 
He brings the.. rag flints and breaks them, but in a different 
manaer irom other parts of the road. He has improved it so 
much» that it does not look the same road at all; I can go now 
•ixteen miles better than I could tweke before. 

Do you consider that t^e horses which travel these roads that 
have been improved, last longer than formerly ? — Yes. 


l^oikviflhardly k asM wbvtber tbcie nk0i»to^ 
you to carry passeDger^at a lower rato than befo» ?--0£ cowise $. 
itU tbeexpeose of tbe stock tbat U the great tbiog; 

I£ ibr rovda were gtsiMiaUy improied, tsavelliog; woiÜcL ber 
«btafiear p.^'^f c^ium». 

Veneris^ iV die Maii, lSi9. 

Mr. George Baikam, cafied in ; and Examined'^ 

YOU keepthe George lan, at Niewbury ?-**!' da. 

Am youi a prcqmetor of mail and other coaches ?!^^¥e8k. 

T<»* a oonaiderabk eisetent ?-««Yeii» and hav£ been £br sdum 


fiow'maii^ horaes^ ha^e yoo ?-^More than a handsedi. 

Yowr attantiiMi'h^ bf coiirse bees directed to. the släte o£tb« 
road'bfftweeO' Newbury and London ?-— Ye«. 

State any'impi'O'Tdfflent that has taken plac^ in that noad)?-*«' 
There is a very great improveflUeotbetweea Marlborooglitaiid 

Under whose directions ? — Mr. M'Adam. 

In what State was that road befbre h — It wtas- ia a Teny bad 
statie, and I mentioned it to lord Aylesbury, and he. aj^h'ed . t^ 
get the materials, and oflered to give up any qaantity.ofikisiländ 
ibr the widening of the road, which he ha» donew 

In point of fact the road has been widened ?-r-Miioh viidfaned 
and much improved. 

Can you State ivhat improrement it wouldmakein tlie dcai^^ 
of thecarriages?*— Not es^icdy, but I cppsider ita wi^gmift 

You cannot State any propor^n of the laboor ofi hoiaoiiia 
dravring a carriag^ ?— No^ not partieulaiiy'f o ; i did aoi difect 
to be asked^ but it is not very-mateijali 

fürd tQ I^odof». r— I am^ex tlie road from TwyfonJ tA i»^ a 

Po yau ibkk by tj^e ad^ptigia qi the «ame System tb^ road 
firoqi Twyford 1# X40Ddo9 migb^ be f^|i}ally uopjroT^d ?-t»1 t^i^ 
aci (kttibi of i( } ih^ matenaU ar^ bettec^ 

WbigH of govMtSe w>9u)d loake; a great difFerenc^ iix the eaaip cif 
Wfirkuig joHT CW<fhe* ?-«Yej^ j I shboiuld tbicfc we ^qvii pej:* 
&nn lbj9 JQUji^y f/q» ^wbtt^y t^ &^94i9g in ^ qjOAlt^r oC an 

Har^ ]^^f ?^ pr^pii^tor 9( tm^ coacbß% b#(i, occ^asiQii. t^ 
expieip 99]r dis^öftfoctipi^ t9 tbe ?o*t OIBcei witfc. regacd» ta 
jmr pr9«ent QQBtFaßts ^-ri^C^niiJnty« vi* ¥ery g?^at i^oasQQ. 

Dq you ^pk tbat you ihoi^ be eo^led to. contini^ thow 
«OUtl^^ at. the preseot rate» if th$ ««|d% a^e nfit gut^ uitß % 
kieiser ^tS^Qjfitp^ -^T^iaft eaürely dep^nd&upoQ th|^ pdc^qf 
«€i9 & i¥^ wer« very greift s^fFer^rs tili lately» tbat cp.rR h%^ fall^ 
fO «Nßli: or els9 my broth^, ^^s i^eU 99 niys^^. io/;^^ ta 
^( tl^ inaiU» because w,e ^erf Ipsjng j^ great dea] o;f ibqp^ 

X>o yiQU QODStder tbat the sjrsten^ oC repairi^g rga^ß,, wJvsb, 
ba^ be^il a4opt^ ^° ^% Ht pf the road wh^ch you h^i» dg-r 
fcribffd ^ ^T^J^ t)ie su^Qtec^nae of lyir. M*A<i^% i». s^- 
p^or to a^py otb^ di^.you haye sie^n a^o^^d J-swC^nt^JuJyj^ l 
am sure it is, thece is 09 c^sti^aboi^t it. 

.And that its geoeral adpptipn woul4 l?e bigbly beneficial to 
the coach propri^toärs» a^d tq. ü^ public i — ^Most certainly. 

Mr. Fromont being prevented by an accident from attending 
the Committee, it was resolved that the fbllowing Letter be 
entered on the Minutes : 

Gentiemen, Thatcham, May 1819. 

I dunk it a duty lacus^aent oa qi«& to, f^m^t tq }^qii, my 
(^ifyoa r^i^^g Mir* ^f AdaQ*a plaa oi rppaipp^^ ao^ m^ 




pTOviüg turnpike roadls. From what -I have noti^ed of his ijm^ 
proyement on difFerent parts oi the Bath road» od which I aiit af 
present working difFereot coaches a distance of aboTe 500 milev 
per day, I think his plan altogether, i. e, first of Screening and 
deansing the gravel» and breaking the stones; secQndly» of 
prepaiing the road to receiTe it ; and thirdly, of laying it on the 
road, 18 the best and safest method I have ever seen in the 
coarse of fifty years experience in the coach and waggon busi« 
nes8. I have formerly had several accidents happen from the 
gravel being laid too thick and very high in the middle of the 
road; and have killed some hundreds of horses (extra) in 
pulling through it ; and I think I may venture to say, that if 
Mr. M'Adam's plan was adopted generally throughout the 
kingdom, in the course of a sbort time the public would b^ 
enabled to travel with much greater ease and safety, and at 
neariy one-third less of expense ; at all events I am convinced 
that neariy one-third leas labour is required to work a fast 
coach over part of the- road between Readingand London, 
where M'Adam's plan has been adopted^ than there is over 
other parts of the road where they still conünue the old plan. 
In shorty my opinion may be given in a few words ; his plan, if 
adopted generally, will cause the traveller to find easier, safer, 
and more expeditious travelHog, and the owners of horses a dimi- 
nution of neariy one-third of the original labour. 

I am, Gentlemen, with respect, 

Your most obedient servant, 

Edward Fromont, 

Jovüy 4** die Martih 1819. 

John Lottdon M^Adam, Esq. calied in; and Examined.. 
IBELIEVE, Mr. M< Adam, you reside at Bristol J—'Yet 



Aq4 haveuoder yoof care> « eomider4hle diemnctof the tmra^ 
päe road9 in th^t Mishbourhoad ?— -Yesi^ ajbqui o^e h^ndre^ 9ß4 
eightj niiles of r(Hi4 in that sjieighbcmrl^Qod^ 

Haw long h«8 your atte«tioa hecq partici^arl| directed ^. t;^ 
•täte of the public roads of tbe kipgdoo; geae^ally^ aßi ^ ^ßfi^fiß 
Qf tbeir ioiproyeiQ^m ?<r-^boat tweoty-fiw J|^^f%>t 

Ave you a prof^snieo^ ciyU engioeer ?--Nq. 

"ße plea^d to 9tat9 to tho CQQunittee ^e geoeral «tat^ of tb^ 
tnrnpike roadf ^t tbe time you Qr^t dire<:ted your att^oa to 
tbnn, abou^ tw^nty yesMn ago?-^ tbink tbq 8tate Qf tbe ];Qada 
twei^ty yeara ago, was wor^ generally tbaii at pT^^ienta aodip 
particttlar placea nmcb worse« If the ponuiutteQ ^ould iadulg^ 
n»i l -vould nieatioii wbat; (rat led rap to tbeae qoQflidei^tioail* 
Oa my lirst arriying frpiq A^meriqa in tbe year 178S» at tbe 
tinae tbe rqads were makipg M) 8cptlan4 (tbeir Turnpike Actd 
beiogii^ operatipn ^Qut tw^Ptjr year^ at tbat tim^») yer^ munf 
Qf tbeir rQ^ wer» unmade* Iwa« tben ^poipt94 4 cprumi«!- 

•toner of tbjs rqadli and b^d occa^iQn i^ tbat ca\pacity tc> ife 9 
great deal of road-wo^. 

Wberc i'-^ln Scotland« Tbi« ^r^t led q^ to in^uir^ ipto the 
general metbod of ro^-makiqgi and tbe exp9Pf e of it. Since 
fjbsit fßnoi, I bare b^n mo^tly in Bristol, wberq l was also ap- 
pointe4 a cemmiHioner of tbe rpads ; tbe rer^ defectiye slate p£ 
wbicb qould not fail tQ attract piy attention. I was induced t^ 
pfier myaelf tp tbe cpmsiisaionera» to take ehacg[e of the^ roads aa 
a suryeypr, bec^ifse t found it ia^ssible for aoy iadividi:^! 
COfnfpissiooer tQ |fet tbe rpadß put into a Situation of being 
mended witb any prosoect pf supcess ; and no ii^diyidual could 
incur tbe e|:pen9e of makinj; e^perimenti on s^ great ^cale. The 
roads qf Bristpl. were 4cppr4ipgly put upder my djrectiqn in tlje 
I90pth of J^Duary 1916 

Tbat WW vbßB yoa wiere appoipted surveypr ?-!— Yes, I have 
travelled at vsvipps time^^ duripg tbe last twenty year8| to 
aaceft^in wbicb are the bcft rqada» and wbü(;b the best meaos of 


t^ad-making over the whole kingdom^ from Invtrness in Scot- 
land to the Land's. £nd in Cornwall. I have obtaified all the 
Information that an unauthorized person could expect to recetve* 
In the course of travelling through the country, I have generally 
found the roads in a veiy defecüve State» certainly much woree 
in particular parte of the country than in others ; and in particu- 
iar counties I have found some parts of the roads much worse 
than in other paru of the same county. The defects öf the roa^s 
appear to me to proceed from various causes» bat principally 
from the large use of a mixture of clay and chalk and other 
natters, that imbibe water» and are aflected by frost Sach 
roads become loose in wet weather, so as to allow the i^eels 
of carriages to displace the materials, and diereby occasion the 
roads to be rough and rutty. More pains^ and mach more ex- 
pense, have been bestowed on the roads of lateyears, bat withoaty in 
my opinion, producing any adeqüate efiect, from want of skill in 
the executive department. I consider the roads in South Wales, 
in Monmoathshire, in Cornwall, in Devonshire» in Hereford- 
sfaire, in part of Hampshire, in part of Oxfordshire, and some 
part of Gloucesterdiire, are managed with the least skill, and 
conseqnently, at the heaviest expense. The paved roads of Lan- 
cashire appear to be very unprofitable, and very expensive. I 
shall mendon to the Committee a few lt>ads which I think in a 
better condition and ander a better System of management. 
IBastward of Bridgewater in Somersetshire, near Kendall in 
Westm'oreland, and near North Allerton, In Yorkshire, the 
iroads appear to be in a mach better State than in other parts of the 
kingdom; and there is a striking difference in the moderate rate 
of their teils, which I have always found most moderate where 
the roads are best managed* I consider the rcason of the roads 
' in tbose parts being in a better condition than in other places, is 
from greater skill and attention being paid to the preparation of 
the materials, and the manner of laying them on the roads. 
Does the superiority of roads, in certain places that you hare 


meiittoned» arise from their better materials la thoie neighböar« 
liooda?— No; the sasne material is found in many parte of the 
kiogdom with mucjb worse roads. 

Theoy in generali ycm impute the badness of the roada solely 
to the applpng of the materials?— Yes. 

• And also to the formatton of the roads f—That I considcr as 
part of the application of the materials« 

•Has there prevailed of late years a general spirit of improfe- 
menti in diff^rent parts of the country, with regard to the roads 
— -I think there has, and particularly in the west country« 

What instances hare come within your own knowledge? — 
The roads immediately round the city of Bristol to the extentof 
148 milesy round Bath to the extent of 49 miles» between Ciren- 
cester and Bath to the amount of 32 miles» the roads of nine 
trosts in the eastern parts of Süsses amounting to 97 miles, at 
Epsom in Surrey amounting to 20 milesi at Reading in Berk- 
shire six milesj amounting in the whole to 352 miles» have been 
put into a very good condition; in addition to which, there are 
now under repair» üve trusts in Wiltshire and Berkshire, amount« 
ing to 108 mileft^; six trusts in Middlesex, Cambridge and 
Huntingdon» amounting to 91 miles; six trusts in Devonshire« 
Buckinghamshire and Glamorganshire, amounting to 129 miies; 
making a total of 328 miles under repair. These are roads that 
have been mended, or are now mending» under directions whiqh 
I have giyen, or which have been given by my family. 

* You are not particularly acquainted with the improvements 
taking place under the managereent of other persons ;— Not par- 
ticularly; but I have some knomdedge of some of them from 

You have not taken under Observation the great road to 
Holyhead ? — No ; that I understand is a new road. You asked 
me with respect to the spirit of improvement; I would wish to 
explain in what way 1 think that is proceeding. I have been 
sent for and consulted by S^diiTerent sets of commiasiooersy and 

G 2 


as many difFerent imsts» and in 13 counties, to the extent of 657 
Blues» all of whom hate been making irafn-oreoients, and I bare 
had many sub-surveyors instructed and aent to variona psuta of 
the conntry» at the requeat of commissionera; many aurr^y« 
ors also in the n^ighbourhood where improyementa axe making^ 
have avatled themselves of the opportunity of having instroction. 
Thus the surveyors of Southampton and that neighbourhood bare 
attended to what is doing at Salisbury and Wilton ; thoa the aur- 
reyora at Kingston and Guildford have profited by the im-« 
p rovements at Epsom in Surrey. 

On which road are the 20 milea that you mentioned at £p- 
lom?-— From Epsoih to Tooting» and then across the country 
to Kingston. Several surveyors near Reading in Berkshire have 
imitated) with considerable success» the improveraenta on that 
road. Mr.' Clay» who haa contracted for the repaii' of the 

ingsland road flear London, engaged a yoang man who was 
in my office at Bristol» Mr. Marshai, whom he aent afterwards 
to Leeds in Yorkahire. It haa been my study to give every 
facility to apread infonnation. 

Has your attention been directed to the roada in the neigh^ 
bourhood of London; and can you State to the Committee 
whether any corresponding improvement has taken place in this 
districtr— -I think less improvement has taken place round Lon- 
don tlian in the country. On the new Surrey roads the example 
set by the pieces of road made at Blackfriars and Westminster 
bridges has induced a little amendment; the materials have been 
more carefully brpken» and they have continued to use ihe ham<i 
mers» rakes and other tools which were recommended to them ; 
but the general improvement is unimportant : and I am not awar^ 
that any alteration has taken place in the System of expenditure» 
and the mode of being supplied with materials, or in employing 
more cpmpetent surveyora'. 

From the experience you have had in the improvements that 
have taktn place» have you found that theac have been attended 


geaeraiiyt with an increao^ or diaRAution of expeixe }— 'In gene« 
ral the expense mu«( be dimfbisbed by ^he improvemeats. The 
lepairs i^f one httodred a^d forty-right miles tound Briitol) and 
many expensive permanent improvements and aIteration9> have 
been made in the last three years, during wbidi a floatiog debt of 
upwards 1)400/. ha^ b^en paid pff, a considerable reduction of- 
the principal debt has been mad^, and a balance of a consider- 
able amount is remaimng in tbe hands of the treasurer» applica- 
ble to further älterations» or to the payment pf part of th^ debt» 
at the discretion of the commiasioners. 

Can you State what proportion that is?*-! thoik the first- 
,ycar, 723/. 

What is tbe amonat of the whole debt ?•— The vhole debt 10 
43i000^. I Said a considerable reducüon of the principe debt 
had been madcj I did not use the vord proportion. I can saen- 
tio« that the balance in the hands of the treasurer, ön tiue last 
settlement of the acc<^nt amounted to 2,790/. 0^. 4dL in the 
Bristol distript, beside a considerable diminution of tbe debt, and 
beside alteratioas and improvements. 

That af^lies only to one hnndred and forty-eight .miles round 
Briatol?— Only to the one hundred and forty*eight miles round 
Bristol. The Bristol district has been under one tnist for twenQr 
years» and in that period the debt has increased to 439000?. 

You will be kjnd enough to fumish the Committee with a 
autement similar to that which was supplied by you to the 
Holyhead Committee, down to the ktest period?-^ wUl. 
Bristol is the only district for which I can have precise figuiei» 
I have not kad the finances in my own management or direction 
with respect to the others. As l have ooly advised with reä|)ect to 
them^ I cannot^ve y^u the items ; ^nd I must say, Chat my ialbr- 
mation with ivspeqt to other rpads, must be much more general 
tban wit]^ respect to this road. In Sussex, the roads in nine 
Irusts have been mcmdfi^ with a considerable diminutibn of the 
lormer ex|ttnse, and the dutuks 9f a general meeting of the trustees 


ofth«'Leves truflts were unanimously voted to Lord Chiche«-' 
ter "for the introduction of this System, by which the roads 
had been so much improTed« and the country was likdy to 
deiiye bo much benefit.'* 

Have you found that a similar diminution of expense hat 
taken place where the materials haye been bad> as where they' 
have been good? — Yes, I have« 

Do yott find your mode of management eqoally applicable 

l¥here the materials are bad as where they are good, and that 

the same proportionable benefit arises? — 1 am afraid gentlemen* 

suppose that I have some particular mode of management» which 

18 certainly not the case» nor can by any means be the case; and in 

every road I have been obliged to alter the mode of management, 

according to the Situation of the roads, and sometimes accord- 

ing to the financea. At Epsom in Surrey, the roads have been 

put into a göod repair, at an expense considerably under the 

former annual expenditure, by which the trustees have been 

enabled to lower their tolls on agricultural carriages. The road 

between Reading and Twyford, in Berkshire, has been made 

solid and smooch since the beginning of July last, by persons 

under my directions, at an expense, including the surveyorfs 

aalary, not exceeding fifteen pounds per week; and their former 

expenditure, exdusive of the surveyor's salary^ was twenty-two 

pounds per week. A great part of the road in the neighbour- 

hood of Bath, which was formed upon the plan laid down in 

my report to the commissioners, and with the greatest success» 

18 made with freestone« which was always supposed impossible 

to make a goöd road of ; but it will make a good road. It 

certainly does not last so long as one made of better materials; 

but it is equally good whilst it does last. One of the roads out 

of Bristol towards Old Down has been made good, where it 

was a received opinion, that from the nature of the materials the 

road could not be made so; and the commissioners would not 

consent to my beginning it until the road was threatened to be 

indicied. It was put into my hands io October 1816, and at 


\he Ghrtstm^s foUowing I was able to re[>ort that it was onc of 
tbe best roads in England for a distance of eleven miles» at the 
expense of first outlay only of 600/. and it has continued so until 
the präsent. 

Please to infoim the Committee« what are the means» in your 
opinion» the most eligible to be adopted for the amelioration of 
the roads throughout the kingdom^— That question, I think, 
divides itself into two branches: The operative part» in making 
the roadsy and the care of the.finances, and the mode of their 
expenditure. I should imagine the operative part of preparing 
roads cannot be effected without procuring a more skilful set of 
6ub-sarveyors ; young men» brought up to agriculture and labour 
must be sought» and regularly in^tructed. It is a business that 
cannot be taught from books, but can only be acquired by a 
laborioas practice of several months, and actual work upon 
roads» under skilful road^makers. Young men who havebeen 
accttstomed to agricultural labour are fittest to be made road« 
surveyors, as their occupations have given them opportunities of 
being acquainted with the value of labour both of men and 
borses. Bat I should greatly mislead the Committee if I did 
not ipform them^ that skill in the operative part of road-makmg 
cannot alone produce a reformation of the multitude ofabuses 
that are practised in almost every part of the couatry» in the 
management of roads and road fiinds. These abuses can only 
be put down by ofEcers in the Situation of gentlemen, who must 
enjoy the confidence» and have the Support of commissioners» and 
who must exercise a constant and vigilant inspection over the 
expenditure made by the sub-surveyors. They must be enaUed 
to.certify to the commissioners that the public money is judi« ' 
ciously and usefully, as well as hohestly expended ; without this 
control and superintendence an end cannot be put to the waste 
of the public money, and all the varlous modes that are injurious 
to the public interest, the amount of which would appear incre- 
diblcy could it be ascertaincd ^ but whichy I conscientiously 


• r • • • 

htlkvtf amount to Oll^•tSgtlth xX the ro«iä Kveime xX ükb Ming^ 
dorn a(t hrgdf and to a Inach püätet ^oportioa uear 


Do you mean the frauds amount to one-eighth ?^^Noy not 
difdct JFnattds, I c^ h Kkim-appKeaitMAi ^ it mufst taot be coficeakd^ 
th^ the tein|ftatio68 "t^ith triliich, eteo a MipetiOfr ofiicet XurHl li^ 
»sailed, the iadfity of p^Ming «o tbeüti, and ikt itnpiAritr with 
wfaidh träntfgte'ssioti tnay he tonmittedy reelle ^^tt^t deücaey ^^ 
the.tele^ction bf "persotfs tolill tihe situadoh ; and <inco«ragfmefii 
to tnake Utn a prc^eftnoü teuttt be ite pr^portiievi to the ^odH^ ^ 
the |>eriion ttqtrired 

Do yoü frot 'coneider one of "theie n^-ftpffi^fatidtis liO l^e the 
iqiidieiowttse of ^e. liä)oafr<ef horsee» iiittead ^ t^aft of Mm» 
«i^dMen mA 'üha^reü? -^ ^d coosidto thtft %o b«^ gneat mt^^ 
l^iitiKcatiMi of ifhö laboar of liom^. f am aihitd tfatft igencbaieii 
iuay «nd^rdtandy from "wliat I Aaid» %hast frauds are eommiitied 
totlifc »iiotfnt^f <i6tae'«e^th> bait I mdsttt 4w«tidi iMng ; I ncaat 
the lM6 «HunigflOfii Mi»-a{<plioaiioü gfliMedfy. I bsnre in gone- 
rtfl fcttifld a<g96ift tdealim«^ ftidterkds ftt lupoD ^evood «hanani 
jfeeeisarfy'Md 1 am 4if c^tiMMi thrit 46 o&e «f tketcfaief camei 
df H9ie 'wdsce of th6 public mc^ney. 

€to yimMffk<che Ion »A8e$,^tao$t instaaces» fram mistaiGey 
ür Tmm Mijr abixte in tegaid to the perwer and |»atMfiage which 
Ae -ftübätkm «codlers f — ^I tfaiak >k preoeeds i&om mktakes asd 
f^voraiice mostiy • 

Pleäseto «iSBplaiii lo ^ OmMutieeia ^HFhat.inray yoa tfaiak Hhe 
Id^ifr df meti, "women add diSdren, ^mwf 4>e tubttttoted Hot tiiat 
«f ^men ?->-4 liaive genevafly foimd . thtt a ^och gmter ^uaa« 
A^^f inaceriah have been caned to ^ihe Mada than a»e necesiaryj 
nA ^ihtirefore the »lereaae of tei«e-)«teisr has heen beyoad any 
UitM fiap&abf afid that getierally t!bt roada <tf the Juügdoa» 
cötitaio a ^upply of «latevialB aufficieat &r 4heir ue for aenerai 
yeafs, if they weve iprbperly lifted and applied ( das ia to her 
entlreiy ^one t>y men, womel), aad cbtldrtn^ aen 'lifting the 


TGkiSs at)d vofmea anil boys, atid tn^ "past labour» breäkmg th^ 
stünes which were lifted op. 

By lifctng the road, you mein tarnmg h up witfa die pidk- 
axe ^Yes ; thift I consider as man's vrcsrk ; talcmg up the 
materials and Wakhig ätones, I comider Öie work of vromen 
and chddTvn, ttrd "which indeed on^t to have been done before 
those materiab had been laid dot^n. 

HöW deep do yon ^ in Kfiing the roads ? — Tbat depends 
upon ctrcttmstancesy imt I liave generally gone four inches deep ; 
I take the materials up four inches deep, and having broken the 
larger pieces, 1 put them back again* 

Pkasetwexplain'totheConiniittee the mode ofbrealcing the 
ttones -90 €9 to adteit of the laböur of nien, women and chil* 
dren ?^^When tlie stone« of un old road have been taken up, 
they are genenüfy £9and of the tize that women and boys can 
break iliem with small hxmmers» and therefore I wouM propose 
to employ diese people to break those stones always before they 
tat 'latd ha.6k fn the roads. 

Is h your plan for those people to break those stones Stand- 
ing, or in a sitting posture ?— Afways in a sitting posture : 
'because I hare fbund thät persons «itting ^wül break more stones 
than persona stsüding, and with a lighter hammer« 

Does diat apply to all materials? — ^To all materials uni- 


Does the plan vrhich you hare mendoned of breaking up the 
roads» apply to gravel roads, or only to those' roads composed of 
hard stones ? — In gravel roads and in some other roads it woul.d 
betthpossitfle to break diem up to any advantage ; and in several 
place^ which I will e^Cplain, I should think it unprofitable to lift 
a itiad t(t flu. There is a discredon of the surveyor, or die 
person Who has the execution of the work, which must be exer- 
cised. I did not order the road in the neighbourhood of 
Reading to be ¥fted, but I directed wherever a large piece of 
flint was seeo, it shovdd be taken up, broken, and put down 


; ;^- 

agaun; and I directed the road to be made perfectiy clean-— I 
am speakiDg of a gravel road now — ^and I directed that additional 
gravel should be prepared in the pits by screeoing the dirt yery 
dean from it, breaking all the large pieces and bringiog that 
upon the road in very light coats not exceeding two inches at a 
time ; and when those coats were settled, to bring others of very 
clean materials upon the road, until it settled into a solid smooth 
hard surface, and which the coachmen in their.mode of ex- 
pression, say ** runs true.'^ The wheel runs hard upon it ; it 
runs upon the nail. 

Uninfluenced by the State of the weather ?— Perfectiy so. 

In your ezperience» have you observed that on gravel roads 
the materials are generally . very unskilfuUy and improperly 
applied ?7— Generally so« I think always I may say» for I think 
I never saw them skilfuliy or properly managed« 

Have you adopted the mode of washiog the gravel ?— No; I 
think that is a more expensive process tbän is necessary. 

Do you think it more expensive than Screening ? — ^A great 
deal more so^ and I have another reason for objecting to that, 
with respect to the gravel near London ; the loam adheres so 
strongly to it that no ordinäry washingwiU . The loam 
is detached from the gravel by the united effort of the water 
on the road; and the travelling, by which the roads near London 
become so excessively dirty ; but it would be impossible to de* 
tach the loam from the gravel in the pits» by throwug water 
on it ; I have tried the experiment and know the fact* 

To what particular practice do you allude, whea you inform 
the Committee that gravel is unskilfuUy applied to the roads 
in general ? — I see that on gravel roads, the gravel is put on 
after being very. impcrfectly sifted» and the large piecea not being 
broken» and the gravel is laid on the middle p£ the road and 
allowed to find its ownHi^y to the sides. . Now the principle of 
road'making I think the most valuable» is to put broken ato^ 
upon a road, which shali unite by its own angles, so as to 


form a solid hard surface, and therefore it foUcws» that when 
that material is laid upon the road, it must remain in Ihe sitoation 
in which it is placed without ever being moved again ; and what ; 
I find fault with putting tjuantities of grayel on the road ia^ 
that before it becbmes useful it must move its Situation and be 
in coiistant motion« ^ 1 

In Order tö attain the advantagre you allude to in the angolar 

materials» I take it for granted, it is your plan to have the larger 

pieces of gravel well broken ? — Certainly; bnt I mean- fiirther, 

that in digging the gravel near London, and places where there 

are vast quäntities of loam» and that loam adhering to ererf ' 

particle of the gravel, however small, I should recommend to 

leave the very small or fine part of the gravel in the pits, and to 

make ase of the larger part which can be broken^ for the double 

purpose of having the gravel laid on the road in an angular 

shape, and that tlie Operation of ^reaking it is the most efiectual 

operadon for beating off the loam that adhei%s to the pieces of 

gravel. There are other cases besides that of gravel, in which 

I should think it unprofltable to lift a road. The road between 

Cirencester and Bath is made of very soft stone, and is of so 

brittle ä nature, that if it were lifted it would rise in sand, and 

there would be nothing to lay down again that would be usefitl. 

I should not recommend lifting of freestone roads for the same 

reason, because it would go so moch to sand that there would 

be very Itttle to lay down again. I will expläin what I have 

done to that road between Cirencester and Bath ; I was obliged 

to lift a little of the sides of the road in order to give it shape» 

but in the ceotre of the road, we, what our men call» ** shaved 

it ;'' it was before in the State which the country people call 

** gridironed,'* that is, it was in long ndges with long hollows 

between, and we cut down the high part to a level with the 

bottom of the fiirrows, and took the materials and sifted them at 

the side of the road and returned what was useful to the 



€an yöu State whether lihe pkn adopted oo this road ha« in« 

creaaedl or dimioyked the -ex^pense ? — 1 think the expenses» by 

die laataccowat« were ntther with« the eji;penditure of the {ormer 

year; «yen mchiding tbe aew «Urvejor's Wage«. They had beea 

ktfaepi^cdce of allowii^ about 32/. a week to the two sur- 

yeyors as the ordinary expenditure ; I directed the aew aur- 

veym% aot to «Kceed that «um upon any accouat whatever, 

wchidii^ their oirn wage«: but fonnerly they paid that sum^ 

and paid nhc sarfe3K>r his wage« at the end of the quarter or 

balf.year in addition : therelbie I eonaider the sum ezpended 

upOD the raod ia htfjior withm the ibriner e3q>eoditure than 

othenKiie, excqtt wkh regard to two ddogerous alips wbicb 

took pbce at SwaDnflwu:k4iilIy wfaidi I loonsider aa perfectly 

In the formattOB of roada under your flaaaagemeat, to wbat 
•hape do you giye the ps^eference ; I allude to the coavex 
aha^ «ir the üat ? — ^^I connder a road ahouJd be aa flat aa poa« 
aibSe mbäti rtgsard to allowmg the water to rua cff at all, becauae 
a canH^ ought to ^ad «pright uiiraT^Kag aliaach aapoa- 
ai>ie. J haare geoeraUy made coada thjree iaches higher in the 
oestrelbaa I hawatthe aides, when they are 18 feet wide$ 
if dieJToad be arnooth aad wdl made» the water will rua off very 
easUyin^nch aalope* 

Do you coaöder a road so .made will not be likely to wear 
kollow in üic nddle, so aa to aUow the water to stand» after it 
haa beea uaed for some ttme ^— No 4 wbea a ^oad ia n^ade 
flat» people mll Jiet Mlow the laiddle of it aa Ifbey dö whea it ia 
raade extremely con^iex. Geademea wiU haTie obaerved that in 
roada very coayex» travellera geaerally feUow the track ia the 
nnddle» which k the only pkce wliere acaniage can rua upright» 
by whieh meaaa tbfee furrowa ve made by the.horaea aad the 
wheela» aad ahe water coadauaUy-ataada there: and I thiak that 
more water actually Stands upon ii trery ccd^^eK noad than oa oae 
which is reasonably flat« 


What wi^ voiikl yoo in guml recomnieiid for hpag 
materials on a turopike read ? — ^That must depend ifxm thc 
•ituationi Nev grett towM raad» of coarae onght to be wider 
than fartker in the coimtry. RcHuit near great towoa oughi niot 
to be Icta thaii tbirty or forty feet widc» biU at a dittance from 
great towns it would be a waste of land to mid» them so 

You mean a breadth of tbtrty feet actaal road ? — ^Yes. The 
accesa to Bristol for a distance of abont tfaree mäes, tf wehad 
room between the hedges, I wottld nake aboixt thirty feet widew 
Between Bath and Bristol I sbould wish to see the road wide 
all the way, because it is onlj the distance of twel^ miles be» 
tween two krge cities. 

In what way do you make the watercourses at the ndea oF 
die road ; I ask that qnestton, ha?ing obierved the farraert. In 
exercising their power ef cleaniog ont their ditchea, dig them to 
•ttch a depth aa to render them dai^eroua to bepassed ät night I 
«-^I aiways widied die di^ch to be 30 dng* aa that the materiala^ 
of the road shouid be thiee or fonr inches above the levd of the 
waler in the ditcb» and to that point we codeafour to bring the 
faitneiBy bat th^ are imy unwilling to clean the ditches at any^ 
time when called upon, and when they do it^ if they find rege- 
table mould in any quantity at the bottom of the ditch, they will 
proaecute their iaqniry much de^r than is useüil, or poper for 

Do you conaider yoa häve power by kwv at preseat, for 
preventing tJbat ?— -Yes ; becaase the law saya» they are to clean 
them Ottt acoonfing to the directiona of the aunreyora. 

In joitf' «aqperience have you fouad any impedtment ta the 
improyement of the toadS| from a waot of power in the pro- 
prietors of different navigattoäs to lower their tcdls for coavey« 
ing niaterials ?— I |iave found in tlie riv^r Lea navigation, that 
the tnistnes have no power to lower their tolb» whtch were im^ 
poaed by act of parliament upon merchandiae» and therefore» ijt 


operated in a great measare as a prohibition to carry materbls 
upon that river. 

Do yoa cönstder it would be to the int^-est of the pro- 
prietors to allow materials to be carried on their navigatiöns at 
a lower rate than they are empowered to allow by law ?— >Ye6y 
if they could. 

Do you know any similar instance as applieabje to canaU ^*- 
I don't know an instance with respect to canal trusts, but there 
iß an instance with re^ct to the Bath river at Bristol. No 
miti^^tioa of the present rate of duty on that river can take place 
if objected to by any one proprietor, and therefore we have 
fibund great difficulty in carrying materials on the Bath river. 
In one particular place we have been entireiy precluded from 
carrying any« 

Have you found any impediment ta dae improvement öf roads 
arinng from the conditions upon which materials are permitted 
to be conveyed from one parish to another ?— Yes ; I found that 
in several cases in the Bristol district. One very strong instance 
occurred near Keynsham ; we had a quarry close to the edge of 
one parish, and we could not carry the stones from it to the 
distance of ten yards» without the process of going to the 

' Did you in that case make application to the magistrates? — 
I did intend to make application, but before I made that appli- 
cation, I found in the very next field, belonging to thesame 
farmer, and in the parish^ where we required them^ the necessary 
materials, and I was under the necessity of opening both the 
fields, to the detriment of the farmer's landlord I am persuaded* 

Do you know an instance of such an a|^lication as that to 
which you have alluded, having been made to the magistrates, 
and having beien refused ?— *No, I do not. 

Do you think that a great incoavenience and loss of time 
would be saved if that necessity of application was dispensed 
with ?«-It certainly is a great incoovenience, and creates a great 


deal of heart^burning in tlie country, and mach dispute. I think 
the commissioners would very seldom be disposed to carry raa- 
terials from one parish to another» unJess for the general public 

What depth of solid materials would you think it right to put 
upon a road» in Order to repair it properly ?— I should think that 
ten inches of well consdidated materials is equal to carry any- 

That is^ provided the substratum is sound ? — No ; I should 
not care whether the substratum was soll or hard ; I should 
rather prefer a soft one4o a hard one. 

You don't mean you would prefer a bog ?-— IFit was not such 
a bog as would not allow a man to walk over» I should prefer it. 

What advantage is deriyed from the substrata not beiag per- 
fecdy solid ?-~I think» when a road is placed upon a hard sub- 
stance» such as a rock» the road wears much sooner than when 
placed on a soft substance« 

Bnt must not the draught of a carriage be much greater on a 
road which has a very soft foundation, than oyer one which is of 
a rocky foundation ?— I think the difference would be very^little 
indeed, because the yield of a good rdad on a soft foundation, is 
not perceptible. 

To use the expression to which you have alluded^ as being 
used by the coachmen» would a carriage run so true upon a road, 
the foundation of which was soft/ as upon one of which the 
foundation was hard ?— -If the road be very good, and very well 
made, it will be so solid, and so hard, as to make no difference* 
And I will give the Committee a strong instance Ofthat, in the 
knowledge of many gentlemen here. The road in Somerset- 
shire, between Bridgewater and Gross» is mostly over a morass, 
which is so extremely soft, that when you ride in a carriage along 
the road, you see the water tremble in the dilches on each side ; 
and after there has been a slight frost, the Vibration of the 
water from the carriage on the road» will be so great as to 

t 1 


bmk UieTOttogioe. TM nßdiB pmly ia ibp Oriitol diiuict. 
I tkiok there i$ abo«t sev«ii mikaof it» aad^itb« «nd of tb^^H 
«even niiles, we comf dirtod j oq tbe linne^oe rock« .1 tlvok 
we have about five or six miles of thii rocky road immediitely 
avcceeding« the moraM i and belog curiont ^o know wh^t the 
wear waii I bad « Tcry cxactaccoun^ ksifi, mtt v^rj htety^ bot 
I think tbe differeoce is. at fiy^ to «eTen ixk Uie cxp^iidititfe of 
the materials on the soft and hard« 


Do ypu meao «eren on the hard and fiire on the $Qk ^-^Ye^. 

▲ad yet the hard road i$ more open to the effecl pf the «ua 
and air than the soft road ?— ^It certainly lies higher* 

Have you ere/ inquired of tbe coachmeq, on whicb of tbose 
two descriptipna pf rofwi« the caniages run th^ Jightest ^r^Yea, 
I Kave ( and I have found that there is no differeoce if th^ road 
beeqnaliy smooth oo tbe sorfape, vrbetber it be plac<?d oo tb« 
soft ground or hard, 

But in forming a road oyer a morass^ would you hottom the 
road with smali or laige stooes ? — ^I never iise bu*ge stonea oo the 
bottom of a read; I- would not put a large stone io any part 
of it. 

In forming a road acrass oiorass, would you oot put some «ort 
of intermediate material between the bog and the stone ?*9N0| 

Would you not put faggots i — No, no faggots« 

How small would you use the stooes ?«7-Not toexceedsix 
ouoces in weight- 

Have you oot found that a Foundation of bog sioks ?— -No, not 
a bit of the road sinks ; and we bare the saine thiickoess ofmsh 
terials on the ooe as oo the other. 

If aroadbe made amootb apd solid, it will be ooe mas8,aod 
tbe effect of.the subatcau, whether clay or aaod, can oe^r be 
feit io efPect l^ carris^s goipg over tbe road; because a road 
well madei uoit^s itseUf ioto • body Ukie a picoe of timbcr or a 



' in makifig a road under diese circamstances^ do you make the \ 
wilde of the deptb of materials at once ?— No, I prefer makiog ^ r 
aroad in three times. 
. Three difiereot times? — ^Yes. 

To what tüte would you break the hard materials ? — ^To the 
üAq of six ounces weight. 

Do yon not think that is an indefinite criterion ; had yöu not 
better mentidn the size ? — No ; I did imagine myself, that the 
difference existed to which yoa allude, and I have weighed six 
Ounces of ^fFerent substances, and am confic^ent there is little 
diflerence in appearance and none in effect ; I think that none 
ought to exceed six ouncetr ; I hold six ounces to be the maxi- 
mum si2e. If you made the road ef all six-ounce stones it 
wodd be a rough road ; but it is impossible but that the greater 
part of the stones must be under that size. 

Do you find a measure or ring through which the' stones will 
passy a gopd method of regulating their size ? — ^That is a very 
good way, but I always make my sunreyors carry a pdr of scales 
änd a six ounce weight in their pocket, and when they come to 
a heap of stones, they weigh one or two of the largest» and if 
they are reasonably about that weight they will do ; it is impos- 
iible to make them come exactiy to it. I would heg leave to 
sayi in all cases of laying new materials upon an old road, I re- 
commend loosening the surface with a pickaxe a very little, so 
as to allow the new materials to unite with the old, otherwise 
the new materials being laid on the hard surface never unite, but 
get kicked about, and are lost to the roads ; wherever new mate- 
rials are to be put down upon an old road^ I recommend a 
little loosening ;* but that I don*t call llfting. 

Have you stated what thickness of new materials you would 
lay down on an old road i — ^I should consider an. old road would 
not waat new materials if it had ten inches of materials befbre, 
but I should only pick up the materials, and break the large 
stones ; and if there were any want of materials, I would" lay oa 
as much as would bring it up to soiiiewhere about the ten inches. 



Would yott prefer doing that in dry weather or in wet v^A' 
ther^— In wet weather, always ; I always prefer mending a road 
in ireather not very dry. 

• Are you of oplnion that any alteraüon of the ^present law» 
either in regard to the repeal of the present regaktions or the 
enactment of new ones, could advantageoualy take place in re- 
gsrd tp the shape of wheels, and the allowance of 
carried in waggona and carts ?*-I am of oiünion that the des^rip- 
tions ,of wheela giyen in all the acta of parliament in the la8t 
•essions are the most convenient and useful ^ and I have thought 
of the matter very inach„ without being able to suggest any alter- 
ation profitable to the public. With reapect to weights, I con* 
•ider there are verygreat difficulties in that business. We baye 
weighing machinea in the neighbourhood I now am in» and I am 
persuaded in many instances that they are made instrumenta of 
oppreasion, and in a great many cases the means of committing 
Tery great fraud on the commissioners and others ; and if some 
method could be fallen upon by which weighing machinea might 
be dispensed with altogether, and the road reasonably protected^ 
I should think it a very great public advaatage. In the new 
Bristol Act» I haye propoaed to the commissioners that they 
•hould submit to parliament to lay a toU-duty upon the numbei; 
of horses in a progressive ratio, so as to compel those people who 
offend to bring in their hands thje penalty in the shape of toll ; I 
think it would prevent a great deal of that System of entering 
into combinations between the toll collectors and the waggonersi 
which is carried on to a great extent. 

Do you think, that if horses in nanrow*wheeled waggons 
ivere obliged to draw otherwise than at length, it would afford 
any protection to the road i — Yes. 

Has not the practice of making horses draw at length very 
much a tendency to make the horses follow one track, be the 
road ever so good ^-^es, ; and I must mention to the Com« 
ihittee^ that the feet of norses'on ilKmade roads do füll as much 


ihiachief as the wheels. It is driving horses in a string that 
«knikcB a road what the country people call ** gridironed ;*' it ia 
an odd expresston, but it is a very significant one. 

Do ydu not belieye,' that if horaes were attached to narrow* 
wheelcd Waggons in pairs, it would be found very considerably 
etsicr to drive and guide them when abreast, than when plaOKl 
at length ? — I shonld think it would. 

And wotdd it not tend to prevent accidents ?-— Horses driven 
81 pairs wwkl' provide .in a great nieasure against the accidents ' 
tiiat arise from the carelessness of those person who drive them, - 
which is extremely great« 

* Do you think that if horses were put in pairs to ^aggohs, the 
power of holding back those Waggons when going down a hil!» - 
would be so much increased as to prevent the necessity of so 
frequently kKking the wheels ?-^Certain]y it would ; because on^ 
ceruin slopes it woüld not be necessary to lock the wheels ; but ' 
there are very steep'hilia where you cannot do without locking. 

Is not locking wheds an Operation extremely injurious to the'. 
roads ?«-— I am not prepared to say it is, if the drag-iron, as it is 
called, be of a proper description. I follöwed a waggon lately, • 
with seven tons of timber on it, down Park-streiet> at Bristol»' 
being a very steep road, with böth its'hind wheels locked ; and 
Ais Waggon, with Ulis weight of timber on it, and with both 
the bind wheels locked, did not' make the least impression from 
the top of the street tö the bottotn. You could discern where 
the drag*irons had gonc, but they had not displäced the'mate- ' 
rials nor done any mischief« : ' 

' Don't yoü find lockine:* generally injurious ?— ^Extremely in* 
jurious ; on rough roads it is dreadful. 

' Would not fewer ruts be made if it were more the custom ibr 
horses to draw in'paifs?^-^I believe gentlemen are not generally 
aware of whät a rut consists. There are two kinds of ruts, ge- 
nerally spcaking ; one is a rut produced by displacing ill-prepared- 
materiäls» and that is the common rut. When a road is made of 

H 2 • 


iO-|ft«paitd materiab» th6 wheel piks them tip one lipon anotliefi 
and thatt forma a yery narrow rut, which just holds the wfaed ; 
bat a rut made by wear upon ä smooth sürface« is rather ä con- 
cave hollow than a rut, and will present no dURculty to a cAr- 
riage in trayelling^ and that is the difference between a rUt pro- 
duced by wtar in a very well*made rüad, and that prodaeed by 
displacing the materials« 

Is there not much ii^ry done to the roads by the heayy weights 
both of coaches and Waggons ? — ^I am not disposed to think that 
upon a well-mad^oad the weight of coaches is material» ör that 
it would be judicious to make any legal pro?isions afiecting thät 
subject. In regard to Waggons^ I conceite that the loads car> 
ried upon wheels of the description encouraged by recent acts of 
parliament, whaterer their weight, Would be yery little injuiious 
to well-made roads« I think a Waggon wheel of siK inches in 
breadthy if standing fairly on the road with any weight what^ver, 
would do yery little material injury to a rOad well made^ and 
pcrfectiy smooth. The injury done to roads is by these immense 
weights strüdng against materials, and in the present mod« of 
•haping the wheels they driye the inaterials before them, inbtäad 
of passmg oyer them, becausel I think if a cairiage passes fairly 
ofver a smooth surface, that cannot hurt the road, but must rather 
be an advantage to it, upon the principle of the roUqr. M 

Are you not of opSniön that the immense weights carried kf 
the broad-wheeldd Waggons, eyra by their perpendicular. pres- 
sure, do injury by crushing the materials ? — Oü a new-made road 
the crush would do mischief, but on a Consolidated old road the 
mere perpendicular prefssüre döes not do any« But there is a 
great deal of injury done by the conical form of the broad wlieels, 
wUch operate like siedging instead bf tumiag fairly* There is 
a 8ixteen*inch wheel waggon which comes out of Bristol« that 
does more injury to our roads than all the travelling of the day 

Are you of opinion that any benefit arises from those broad«^ 


wheeled waggoas» which would justify their total exiemptioH 
from tolls ?— N<^e at all. 

Does the answer you have given to the Committee relattye to 
the efPect of great weigbtd, apply eqaal]y to roads made with 
gniTel, as well as broken stone ? — I mean it to apply to all well- 
made roads, whether of gravel or of other matoials. 

You mean after ihe road is smooth and solid ?— Yes. 

Bat with regard to a oew road, are you not of opinion that the 
materials are crushed and wom out b|r a great waght i — ^Yes ; 
HO doubt that is so on a newmade road» and one of those Wag- 
gons with the wheels made conica!) would ciüh a greater Pro- 
portion of stone than it ought to do. 

Do you not conceive that the State of the tumjäce roads would 
be ipiproved by not allowing any Waggons to carry more weight 
than füur ton ? — I don^t know that that would make any great 
difTerence» under göod managenient, I think che defeet lies in 
a want of science m road<<making. 



Mortis, 9° die Mariii, 1819. 

J^in Loüdon M*A4amt Esqwe, called in ; and £xamiaed. 

IN your evidence last week, you stated that less improyement 
ad taken place in the roads in the neighbourhood df London 
Chan in any other district, to what causes do you attrihute thja 
circumstance l — ^I consider the principal cause to be the smali 
extent of the trusts, and the peculiar Situation of London, which 
increases the bad effects of the division into very small trusts. 

What are the particulars of the Situation to which you allude? 
—The Situation of most of the roads near London is very low, 
difficult to be kept free from water, the trafEc is very great both 
in weight and number, and therefore requiring more skill, as 
well as more care and attention, than the other roads of the king- 
dom \ the material found near London for making the roads Is 



' gravel of a very bad iqualityi it Is mixed with an adhesiv« loani 

. that cannot be separated from the grayel» except by the united 

* power of water and friction ; tbis Operation cannot be effiectually 

performed before laying it on tbe roads» but is done by the rain 

; and the traffic, producing ä stiffmud» wfaich is not only in itself 

V an impediment to traveUing» but has the elFect of keeping the 

; roads looBe $ the form of the gravel is also unSnrourable» being 

I smooth round masses of fiint, withont any angles by which the 

' parts might unite. On the other band» London is pkced in a 

Situation peculiarly convenient fbr being snpplied with materials 

from a distance, )gp wäter carriage« The materials that may be 

so procured are of the very best description^ and» vnder the 

] Sanction of pariiament) xnay be procured on very modeiate terms« 

': The Thames furaiabes gravel of a very good quality and quite 

clean ; by using this gravel, the Navigation of tlae riyer will be 

improved; the several canals» the Surrey, the Grand Junction, 

Paddington, and river Lea navigation» present facilities fbr pro- 

curing clean flint of the best kind; the coast of Essex, Kent, 

and SusseXy can fumish a supply to any extent of beach pebUes, 

one of the best road materials in the kingdom. Onmite chippingt 

might be obtained occasionally from Comwall, Guemsey and 

Scötland» as ballast^ two pieces of roäd were mäde with these 

materials near London, without any mixtnre of land gravd, jU 

Blackfriars Bridge and Westminster Bridge. ^ 

What are the^ impediments which, in your opinion, prevent 

the commissioners of the roads near London from availing tliem* 

selves of those advantages ? — The very small trusts into which 

the roads in the immediate vicinity of London are divided, is the 

principal cause ; this renders it iropossible for commissioners to 

enter upon the plan of procuring materials upon an extended 

Scale, and they cannot be obtained with any regard to economy, 

except in quantity, with a view to a supply for the whole roads, 

proceeding from the stones of London to a certain distance, 

There are also some impediments. arising. from particular laws, 


regidatioDt and cufttomSf which can only be removed by parlia« 
ment. The Ballast Act gives a right of pre-empt!on to the 
Trinity Hoase of all stone and other materials brought as ballast 
into die Thames« The coästing duty on stone operates as a pro- 
hlbition to the impoitation of stone as merchandize ; the amonnt 
of cand duties payaUe on merchandize pi^vents the carriage of 
road materials on all inland navigations ; manure so transported 
has been protected in most Canal Acts, but road materials hare 
not been considered* Should parliament be pleased to remove 
these difficultieS) the London roads may be rendered independent 
of the gravel of the country» by a moderate exertion of Statisti- 
cal and mercantile Information on the part of the of&cers em-» 
ployed by the commissioners. 

If tiie Committee understand you rights you give a decided ' 
preference to materials thus imported, over the gravel to be found 
in the neighbourhood of London ? — I do. 

Is it your opinion» that by proper regulations a sulficient supply 
of those materials to which you have alluded, could be procm'ed 
for the whole of the roads in the neighbourhood of London ? — 
Yes, I think there might ; because a steady and constant demand, 
even at a low pnce» would insure importaticMi, and this demand 
can only be steady if the roads round'London were Consolidated 
under one set of commissioners acting for the whole« and having 
dep6ts into which they could receive materials at all times at a 
fixed price> tö be distribnted wherever wanted, by an assurance of 
aready purchaser ; vessel« coming in ballast» or not fully loaded» 
from any place where good road materials were to be procured» 
would be induced to take on board sulficient to make up their 
löading; contracts could also be made for flint by thevariou« 
canals» and upon terms more moderate than the present price of 
grayel ; I am unable to lay before thie Committee a detailed plan 
för supplying the London roads with good and cheap materials, 
which rcquires a conwderable time and attention in the in<|uiry. 


1$ there any other infonnation connected with the Iraprovemeot 
of tbe roads in tbe neighbourhood of London, which yoa think 
y ou jcould give to the Committee ?-^I am quite satisfied that the 
materials to be imported iato London would make good roads» 
becanse I made two pieces of Teiy excellent road with thoae ma- 
tenals at the two bridges, without making «ue of any gravel of 

At what dme was this done ?-T-The pieces of road weie made 
in August and September 1817. 

What was the extent ? — There were about 200 yards of the 
one, and about 180 yards of the other ; one of them joins the 
iron pavement at the foot of Blackfri^rs bridge; and the other 
joins the Marsh-gate tumpike» and goes to the Asylum ; thoae 
xoads were made with river-gravel and pebbles from the coast* 

From whence did you get the river-gravel ? — It was purchased . 
from the steam-engines that raise it in the riTer. 

Did youlift the old road ? — ^I took up all the stones that were 
in them that were good for any thing, the flints and other stoaes» 
and then made use of a considerable quaotity of additionai mate- 
rials to make the surface of the röad afterwards. 

Was the expense considerable i — There was no account kept 
of the expense of the experiment at Westminster bridge» because 
the commissioners wiahed me to employ a number of paupers and 
persona that had been on the road beforc^ without discharging 
them^ who were yery indüFerent hands ; and they also wiahed 
that the road should be yery considerably aboye the leyel than I 
thought necessary« and that brougkt much more materials than 
otherwise need haye been put on; but the Blackfriars bridge 
experiment cpst about seren-pence halfpenny per Square yard; 
there was a yery correct account kept of it»' includiog the pripe of 
materials and labour»- and eyery thing. 

Could you State what that would amount tofor a mile ?-^— That 
would depend upon the breadth of the road. 




At wbät rate per mile would be the expense of such an im- 
provement» sopposing the road thirty feet wide? — About 528/. 

Is not a road constructed with a road-way of sucteen ftet* 
breadth of solid mafteriafoy and with six'feet on each aide ofthat . 
with alighter materials, a safficient road for the general purposes 
öf couQtry travelltng ?— Yes ; and generally the roads round 
Bristol are made with atone» about the breadth of sixteen feet. 

In your former answer respecting matenals, yon made uae ge- 
nerally of the term roads ** round London/' to what extent did 
yott mean to donvey the idea of that improvement? — ^I should 
tbiodc üiH th6 river» and the facüity of the caaals« might in all 
places allow you to carry the improvement ten miles round Lon- 
don ; and perhaps where the caaals or rail-waya come through 
the country» youmi^t carry the improTement farther« 

Has not the System of road management at present practised, 
the eflect of repressing efibits for acquinng skill and exertions of 
science» as connected with the business of road-making? — ^I 
thtnk it has. 

Will you explain in what way ? — Because the surveyors at pre- 
sent appointed are not required to have any parttcular skill in their 
iMisiness befove they are appointed ; but the appointment generally 
takes place to proride for some person a Situation ; and the want 
of superior officers over the sub-surveyors is the means of prevent- 
ing those siü>-suifveyor8 from acquiring a knowledge necessary to 
execute their 'dutiies undeir an oiEcer who would know whether 
they were able to execute them or not. 

You mean that there is a not a suflicient degree of inspeetion 
and coBtrol provided by die legislature over the conduct of the 
svrreyor of the roadsi— -i think so. 

Do you conceive thata more scientific systeltn of management 
of roads is wanted universally ?— I do. 

Do not you conceive that the want of this scientific System 


leadt to a great waste of public niooey ?— «I tfaink it leoda to a 
great waste of public money* 

And alao to a great waste of property in honea and carriag^s ? 
—I think it does, 

Has any estimate erer been made of the extent of that lof 8 i 
— There can be no accurate estimate of a loss so umrersal as that 
of the waste of horsies and carriages by bad roads ; but the Com- 
mittee of 1811 estimated the saying which would be made to 
the couDtry by putting the roads in a proper State of repair, at a 
sum equal to five millions annually. 

What remedy would you propose to eure the defects of the 
the general System of road management ?— My cpinion is» diat 
the only eure would be to have people of a better sutic« of li& 
placed over them in the direction of this business ; that each 
county or large district in the country onght td have an officer 
in the character of a gendemani to orersee the surreyors of the 
disuict ; not only to direct them what to do, but to see that the 
work is judiciously and faonestly executed ; and I think a veiy 
small Proportion of the sum now wasted by bad management 
would pay for such an establishment, 

Would you alter the trusts ?— That would be a great advantagp, 
if the trusts could be Consolidated ; but there are objections to 
thaty and very serious objections» 

Local objections ?— Yes, such as the debt upon each trust* 

Do you propose the appointment of those overseers to be with 
the preseot comipissioners of the roads ?— Certainly* 

Do you propose any genera) inspecäon to be established oyer 
the whole System of road-making>?— I should think it a public 
advantage if there was some inspection or Controlling power in 
some quarter or other, to prevent the general sunreyors from 
being improperly appointed ; but whether that Controlling power 
should emanate from the govemmenti or the authorities in the 
couDty, I am not a judge. 


Do youtlnnk a Controlling power establtthed in the metro-. 
polisy to communicate on the subject throughout the kingdom» 
woold be an advantageous establishment ?— -I think it wonld be a 
iiery profiuhle and desirable establishment« 
. Lodctng to the revenues aod to practical advantages ?«— Look-» 
ing to the revenues, practical advantages, and to the dbsemina- 
tion of infonpation. 

Would you propose thcir haring a power of suspending pffioera 
in certain (äses ?-*GertaiQly» tili the pleasure of the comnns- 
sioners was known ; on any gross instance of miscondnct or 
negligence. - 

. Wottld not you propose they should report occasionaUy the 
State and condition of the roads» and also the State of the finances 
of each trust ? — I should think the State of the finances oughi 
to be leported in some way every year, that they mig^t reach 
parliament, either by counties, or by some means the least ex- 
pensive and least troublesome ; and I think sucha report of the 
financesy annually« would be a great means of preventing mis- 
applicadon of the public funds ; and it would create a comparii- 
son bctween one part of the countiy and another^ that would be 
useful in checking misconduct. 

' Then you do not think there is/ at present* a sufficient pro- 
tection of the read rerenue of the kingdom against dishonest or. 
Ignorant praetices ?-^I think the. read revenue is kss protected 
than any odier part of. the public eiq>enditure ; and^ is 
▼ery large, itmaybe consideredy I think» almost unprotected, 
under the present System of law. 

Hare you any loose guess in your own roind» as to the extent 
of the reyenue throughout the kingdom» raised for the purpose 
of müntaining roads ? — I have been led to guess a milliqn aod a 
quaiter a yeari as the toll revenue ; from the circumstance of 
there being five-and-twenty thousand miles of tumpike read in 
£ogland and Waled. 
, That is an iacreasipg revenue h — It is cer^inly iocreasing rery 


moch ; I tbink tbe revenoe has beeo increaaed by the increaseof 

travelliDg» aod pardcalarly stage^coaches« 

Has not it been the practice to augment tbe tolls cooaidorably 
in all recent turnpike acta ? — In tbe tfaree seuions of parliament' 
preceding the present» I tbink, tbere were about ninety petitions 
\ö parliament fbr a renewal of acta» and an bcrease of their tolls, 
because they were in a State tbat they could not pay their debts 
without tbe assistance of parliament. 

Dof 6 not the great expense attending the renewal of acta of 
parliament, contribute very mach to reatrain a proper improye- 
ment of the roada in the kingdom ?— The expenae of renewing 
ao many acta of parliament, aa ia occanoned by tbe great diTision 
of truata in the country, certainly abaorba a very great aom of the 
road revenae of the kingdom ; becauae thoae acta are every one 
of them renewed every twenty»one yeara, and frequently ciicum* 
atancea oblige the truateea to come oftener to parliament. 

Do you happen to know whether there have been any atq>8 taken 
by the Poat-office, with a Tiew to forming aome gencral arraage* 
ment with regard to the roada ? — ^I am not acquainted with any» 
I have had repeated converaationa with lord Chicheater, the- 
poatmaster-general, and he haa aaked for all the information I 
could give his lordahip ; and, of co^rae, I have given the in- 
formatioo pretty much in the manner I bare had the honour t» 
do to thiaCommittee; and, I believe, hia lordahip ia aatiafied 
that the consolidation of truata would be very uaeCal : aad he bat 
uaed hla influedce in the ccmnty of Suaaex to have nine tniats 
Consolidated, for the expreaa purpose of mutual aaaiatance m 
providing a general aurvcyor. 

Dp you know the rssult ? — I gave the reault, and a copy of 
the resolutiona of the county, at the last meeting. 

Do you know the result as to the expenditure ? — ^Yes, it goe^ 
to that aa well as to the amendment of the roads. 

Supposing any insuperable difficulty to exist in placing the 
managemcnt of the roads of the kingdom uader a board of ma» 


mgemeiit^ do you bot cobsider that Yery great advantage woutd 
arise froih coHscriidating the difFerent truäts round London , and 
l^acingthem under an unity of superiiitendenco and regulatton?— « 
Certainly so ; I think that that would be a measure of the great«' 
est ttse in the world ; and I think that no palliative« oo other 
means whatever can be deyised to get the London roads improved» 
except consolldating the trusts under obe head» or one set of 
conunisaioners, or some body that shall control the whole ; con^ 
solidatingthe roads round London» would be the means probably 
of great amelioratioti in the System or manner of mending the 
roads, and that would senre as an exsmple to other parts of the 
countiy» and might be the means of extending improvement in 
the mode of rood-making, and would form a sort of school or 
ezample to other parts of the country. 

Do you think, upon the säme principle that you recoitraiend 
oonsolidating trusts round London» it tj^ould be adTisable that 
powers should be given to consoiidate trusts in difFerent parts of 
the kingdom ? — I should think it yery advisable that powers were 
granted by parllameüt to such trusts as chose to do it» to conso- 
iidate theixlselves into one body for the purpose of haying a better 
superintendence» or for any other purposes of general improve« 
ment ; but upon considering the matter very fully» I am öf opi- 
nion that it would be more profitaUe that the Legislature should 
give leave to trusts than that they should make it imperatire upon 
them; it will be absolutely necessary» before any such measuro 
could come into eSscti that parliament. should not only give thii 
leave» but that they should make the proceedings of the general 
meeting of those trusts legal» which at present they woidd not be 
as the law staqdt ; the niiie trusts in Sussex» who have now 
yoluntarily assooiated together» hold what is contidered a general 
iDieeüng of those trusts ; but I by no means think that their pro* 
ceedings are legal^ as the laW now Stands. 

In many cases where the consolidadoa would be beneficial^ 
do not yoji consider it Would be resisted from locsl motives?-^ 


Perhapt it might be resisted $ it will be unfortunate when thatr 
happens to be the caae» but when the good effects of it begin to. 
beseen in the couotry» I think tho8e objections would be got 
ridof. ' ^ 

Do you beliere that the first effects of such consolidation would 
be a diminution of expense ?— I am qiiite certain of that. 

How ia that diminutfon of expense to arise ? — By tntroducing 
a much better mode of management» it would occation more 
regularity in the mode of keeping accounts, it would intrödiice 
a diminution of expense materially in horsc labour, andin tartoua- 
other things; that I think^ upon the wliole, the diinimition of 
expense by such reguladon would be foimd very great indeed. 

Do not yoa beliefe that the present System of maintaining road» 
tt üic means of a continued increase of expense in the debt and> 
toHs throughout the kingdom ? — I thtnk the debt is increasing 
Tery much throughout the kingdom» and that the debt is perhaps 
greater than gentlemen in parliament are aware of ; at present tolls 
are increasing. 

Do you consider that there is a cörresponding improvement in 
the roadsy in pröportion to the increase of the tolls and:debts ?— 
By no means ; my belief is, that where the greatest expense is, 
there the worst management is, or rather, that the worst manage» 
ment produces the greatest expense. 

Then, in your opinion» a great improvement might be effected 
on thie roads in generale which might be accompanied in the end 
by a gradual dhninudon of debt and tolls ? — Certainly, I think 

Can you give any information as to the total amount of genie- 
ral debt on the roads now existing in £^ngliafid and Wales ?-^ 
After inquiring by all the means that an unauthorized individua! 
could do in diflerent parts of the country, and ascertaining, as^ 
nearly as I could, the ^mount of debt upon a great number of 
trusts ; I have been incHned to believe that the debt at prtfeent 
amounts to about seven millions in England and Wales. ' 


Are you of opinion that any considerable advantage might be 
derived in the maxuigement of the roads, by a commutatipii for, 
the sutute labour? — ^Yes ; I think very great advantage would 
be derived by the public» if the Statute labour were commufced 
for money, and that, if it were commuted at a very low rate ; 
if it were one half of the real value of the work, I should think» 
the roads would be more benefited by it in general through the 

Is it the general practice in Scotland, under any act of parlia« 

ment, to commute Statute labour for money ? — All the acts of 

parliament I am acquainted with in Scotland have coQU^uited it ; 

one in the county I belong to, conunuted it tweaty |rear8:ago^ 

with very great advantage. . • » 

You have mendoned that the commissioners of the Westmin« 

ster bridge road required you to employ a considerable number of 

paupers ; the Committee wish to know whether it is the general, 

practice» in your Observation» to employ paupers upon roads ?— -I 

have always found that in every place wherc the imp-ovement. of 

the roads has been commenced» under any adidce £^ven by me, 

it has been desired very much by the inhabitants tilgt the people 

unemployed (not, perhaps, paupers that gcnerally receive parish 

relief, but those people who come to ask for rclief, because they. 

cannot get work) should be employed on the road ; and it has 

beea very much my wish to gratify. that desire by giving them 

work, not by the day, but by the piece, becaujBe that has gene- 

rally put them off the parishes ; the moment they get work to 

do» by which they can get thetr bread» and without which they 

cannot get their bread, they quit the prish. 

Is it not the practice, in trusts where you have not beea con- 
cemed» to employ paupers, or very old labourers ?— I have 
found in all the trusts that have sent to me to take advice, that 
the labourers have been a gitat number of them very infefficient 
nen j and the excuse generally given for that is, that those peo- 



fUt would come to the parith if diqr were not sent to the 

Is the poy of those men propordoaably low with their abÜidet 
to work ? — ^I have not foood that to be the case. I have fomid 
that thofle poor, miserable meD, vho can do very little» hare 
been getdog consideraUe wages, and in that way a considerable 
•tun has been wasted. 

In point of practice» then» the road levenue is made to act as 
a poor fiind ?«— Precisely so ; I think the road reinenne has gone 
to the asMStance of the poor in that way. 

In yonr experience have yoa found that the common mode of 
employing panpers by day-work» is inefficient both to the im- 
provementof the roads and to the objectof relieving the parishes ? 
.— It may ha^e the effect of relieving the parishes, bot I should 
think it a very bad mode of meodiog the roads ; inatmuch as 
these men, when they have got day-wages, will do very little, 
and for that reason I employ all oor men on piece-work ; we faavo 
two hundred and eighty labourers in the district of Bristol, and 
they are almost all on piece-work ; it is very seldom we employ 
men by the day. I was directed by the Committee, at their last 
meedngy to produce some more deeailed accounts respecting the 
Bristol district: in obedieoce to that Order, I have obtained 
the report made by me at the end of the first and second year of 
my administration, which I beg to submit to the Committee, to- 
gether Vith the resolution of the commissioners thereon. 

[TkeJoRomng Papers were deüveredtn^ and read:"} 
ExFEKDiTURB on the Bristol Roads. 

lo tbe year 1815| previoas to tbe »Itera- 
tion ofmanagement, there was paid «£.14,285 2 1 
An unpaid floating debt of . . • 1,400 

ToUl expense of 1815, to 2Mfa March 1816 £. 15,685 2 I 


AkefatioQ of managementf commenced 16th Januarj) 1816. 

In 1816, outlay was . . . ,£.16,127 5 1 

Bedact accountsof 1815 . . ef. 1,400 

Paid ioto 5 per cent. fund^ about 340 

— 1,740 

Total expehse of roads, to Marcfa 1817 . <£. 14,337 5 l 

In 1817, outlay was . . . ^.15,830 4 11 

Of which, permanent itnprove- 

mentscosl . . . i£. 1,500 

Paid to 5 p6r cent. fund, äbout . 200 

Paid for a general survey and plans 340 

Whitcharch Bridge repairs . . 320 

I 2,360 

Total expcnditure for roads, to 25 March 1318 . £. 13,470 4 1 1 

Bristol Turnpik^s« 

Report of Mr. John Loudon M^Adam, to a GcDcral Meeüng 

of Commissionersy 2d June i817* 

Since I bad the honour of reporting to the meetiDg of com- 
missioners on the 2d of March last» the amendment of the roads 
has proceeded with success, and at pre^ent there are no parts of 
the roads of the Bristol district in a bad State« 

Much has been done in partial improvements» which have al- 
together amounted to a consid^raUe sam, although not of suf- 
ficient magnitude individually to come within th6 scope of the 
regulations of the general oieetoig^ that reatrain iitipro^ements 
exceeding 501, without ^ciaJ Order ; lereral auch improTe* 
ments are still necessary, and someof die small bridges reqaii« to 
be lengthened in the arches« in order to lead Hihe roads to thera 
more commodiouslyi and to widen ihe roadway on the bridges* 

The Statement of the inconse.and ea^endtture of the year, dow 
made up to the 25th Marcbi proseots a ^ery sasJsfactory resuk. 



In the last year, a sum equal to nearly live times that of the 
preceding ycar, has been paid into the 5 per cent. fund. 

A floating debt> which did not appear in the printed annuät 
account of last year, but which amoanted to about l^^OO/., hai 
been paid off. 

The balances of treasurer's accounts, which last year showed 
the trast to be indebted on the whole to the treasurer 356/. are 
now 80 much on the other side^ that your trcasurers have on the 
whole account a balance in band of 614/. and this balance is 
efiicient, because the floating debt is now reduced to the 
sniallest sum possible^ under the circurostances of a business so 

In addition to which, I have to congratulate the commissioDers 
on a reduction of the principal debt in the sum of 729/. lOs* 3rf, 
and that turnpike tickets, which were at a discount, are now in 

(Signed) John Lovdon M^Jdam. 

8th March 1819. 

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of 
the trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads. 

Osbome <§• H^ard^ Clerks. 

Bristol Turnpikes. 

Report of Mr. Johft Loudon M< Adam, to a General Meeting of 

Commissioners^ Ist June 1818« 

Bristol Office of Roads, Ist June, 1818. 
Since I had the honour to report to the commissioners, in June 
1817, the business of the roads has gone on successfully, and 
they have been kept in invariably good repair under the present 
System of management, notwithstanding the roads having been 
" tried by all ricissitudes of the most unfavourable seasons ever 

Several valuable improvements liave also been effected in*dif- 
ferent parts of the district ; the very promising State of the 


tnances hayiiig iitduced the commissionera to empldy great |>Brt 
of the sayiRgs of their income for that parpose, instead of «p- 
flyiag the whole to the liquidation of the prindpal (}ebt of the 
trost. ThfS great debt has» howeyer» been diminished ne^fly 
50(V!» while the sum expended on tke permanent improvements 
condderably exceeds 1»500/. 

On the 25th March 181 8, there was a balance in £» s. d. 
the hands of each of the treasurersi with ex- , 

ception of the Bitton and Toghill roads ; and 
the balance due to that treasurer has been dimi- 
nished upon the whole account; there remained 
in the hands of the treasurers» on the 25th ' 
March 1818| the sum of . . . 1|987 14 5 

In the hands of the general treasurer, 
^om 5 per Cent« fund . «£'.502 -5 11 ' 

Due by the Whitchurch road to the 

5 per Cent« fund, and included in 

the general debt . . 300 

802 5 11 

Balance in band, 25th March 1818 . <£. 2,790 4 

It 18 very gratifying to report to ihe commissioners this mate- 
rial amelioration of the funds during the present year, when the 
income of the trust has suffered a diminution of 425/. 5/. occa- 
sioned probably by the depression of trade throughout the 

It is to be regretted that the directioas of the general meet- 
ings respecting the payments to the 5 per cent; fand have not been 
more punctually obeyed ; but without entering into the circum- 
stances of he^y debt and other difficulties, which have hitherto 
prerented payments from particalar treasurers, I beg Icave to call 
the attention of the commissioners to a considerntLon of the 



importaiice of this fand» and the use io which it may be most 
advantageottsly applied. 

The fiind was institated for the paipose of ginog die ^eral 
meetings the power of extending ttd to aoy divisiob of the 
roads of the district that.might bö in distress« As the fkvoulr- 
^le State of the funds» arising from t)ie System of managettieiit 
adopted by the commissionersi gires avery reasonable hope that 
such occasion of distress may neyer again occar, it may be ex- 
pedient to consider of the propriety of conyerting the 5 per 
Cents, into a sinking fund. 

By application of such a sunii amounting to about 8507* 
annually» to the gradual extinction of the debt of the trust» the 
means of continuing several useful and very desirabie improye- 
ments will be diminished only in a small proportion» and ijie 
amendment of the general State of the roads will proceed» 
without entirely losing sight of the justice due to the creditor% 
and the desirabie object of reducing a debt of such magnitude». 

As it may be doubtfui whether under the authority of the 
present act of parliament the trustees may legally apply the 5 
Cent, fund to the pürpose of a sinking fund, the committee ap- 
pointed to prepare the new act inay be insthicted to Consider of 
this subjecti and also for better securing the due payment of the 
S per cent fund at stated period8> along with the interest of the 
debt, to the general treasuren 

I haye great pleasure in beiag aUe to co&tinue to giye a fayour- 
able report of the conduct of the sub-Buryeyors. 

( Signed ) ^ John Laudon M*Adanu 


The fbregoing is a tme copy from the book of prooeediags of 
the truirtees of the Bristol tnmpike reads. 

Osfomc 4* fFWn^ Ckrks. 


Bristol Turnpikes. 

At a Meeting of die Trustees for the care of the several roads 
round die city of Bristol» holdea on 7th December 1818» at 
the Guildhall in Bristol. 

Thomas Daniel» Esq. in the Chair • 

It appearing that ander the triennial appomtment of Mr* 
M^Adam» his oilice of general surveyor will cease on the 16th 
day of January next ; — 

Ordered unanimously» That he be again appointed to that 
Office for a further tenn of three years^ at the same salary. 

Resolved unanimously» That the thanks of this meedng be 
giyen to Mr. M^Adam for the zeal and ability with which he 
has executed the very ardüous duties of his office» from which 
jit appears to this meedng that the most importanc advantages have 
resul^e«) to the roads und«r his care. 
eth March 1819. 

The foregoing is a true copy from the bool; of proceedings of 
thetrusteesof the Bristol turopike roads. 

Osbome Sf W^frd, Clerks. 

Poes any part of that saving which is stated to have taken 
place on those roads» arise froman increase of revenue ? — There 
}m been a sm^ increase of revenue» bat whether arising from 
toUs or a better coUection of the Statute labour, I cannot take 
upoo i^e to s^y ; b(ut tb^t increase of revenue must be de- 
ducted frpm the p^ving 9f 2|70(Mi» which eppearf in the trea- 


JoviSy 1 1" die Martii, 1819. 

\ « 

John Loudon M*Aclam, Esquire^ called in ; and Examined. 

IS there any part of your former evidence upon which you 
wish to give any further explanatioo to the Committee ?-*>In 
consequence of the surprise and doubt expressed by some 
mcmbers of this honourable Committee» on that part of iny 
evidence respeoting the carrying a road over a morass in 
Somersetshire, and the proportions of the materials used 
upon that^ and the part of the road with a rocky foundation, 
which I stated from ndemory, I thought it proper to write 
down to the treasurer of that road, to request the favour of 
him to send for the surveyor, and know the fkcts exactiy 
ffom him. The treasurer, Mr. Phippen, who is a magistratCi 
s'ent a certificate, signcd by the surveyor« There was a 
certificate, also, signed by Mr. Phippen ; and with it there 
was a letter from Mr. Phippen, of explanation ; both of which 
I wish to put in. 

C The papers ptä in toere asJoUc/w •*] 

<' I do certify that that part of the sixteeir miles of the 
Bristol turnpike road under my care, from Crpss, over the 
marsh lands, towards Bridgewater, is now in the best State 
I ever knew it> which is wholly owing to having the very largo 
stoneslaidat the foundation when the road was first made 
more than fifly ye^rs since, lifted and beaten very small. The 
general strength of the road is from seven inches to nine ; 
and five tons of stones, I have always considered for the re- 
pairs of this part of the road equal to seven on the other 
purt over the hills« 

(Signed) '* Edward tVhütingt Surveyor." 


*' I, Robert Phippen, Esq. one of His Majesty's jus- 
tices of the peace for the county of Somerset, and treasurer 
on the road mentioned in the above certificate, do hereby 
certify and declare, that the Contents are true to the best of 
my knowledge and belief; and the road in question has 
been under my constant inspection for five years past; and 
the surveyor, Edward Whitting, is a person well known to 
me, and worthy of credit. 

« Dated March 9th, 1819/' 

" Letter from Robert Phippen, Esq. to John London 
M'Adam, Esq. No. 9, Northumberland-street, Strand, 

" Dear Sir, . 
<* There cannot, in mj, opinion, be any necessity to lay 
the foundation of a road on any ground, even the raost sofl 
and peaty, with large stones; daily Observation teils me,, 
that this is a great waste of time, materials, and money. 
I have had, for these five or six years past, a great deal of 
experience in seeing roads made, one in particular, over a 
very soft peat-bog, by Wedmore and Glastonbury, in this 
county. At the time this new line of road was proposed to 
be made, a great difierence of opinion existed as to its prac- 
ticability, and the method to be pursued to accomplish it. 
Some of the parties were for laying the whole of the road 
oyer the bog wiih brush-wood, on which were to be put 
large fiat stones, and on those smaller ones. We who were 
the other party, insisted that a more simple, less expensive, 
and more permanent method was to make it with stones 
alone, broken very small. We, at last, prevailed, and the 
System succeeded even beyond our most sanguine expec- 
tations ; for this part of the road has stood uncommonly well, 
though the travelling on it has been very great, and with 
heavy carriages, and the IHtle repairs wanted have been done 




at an inconsiderable expense, compared to thc other pari of 
the road made on hard ground o^er the hüls. 

« I remaiii) dear Sir, your*s truly, 

" Roh. Phippen.'* 
" Badgworth Court, near Axbridge, 
March 9th, 1819. 

I wish, in reference to the opinioti I gave with respect to 
the Statute labour, to State, that I have to transact with 
sixty-nine parishes, respecting their Statute labour, in the 
counties of Somerset and Gloucester ; and that it is in cön- 
sequence of these transactions, I gave the opinion to the 
Committee that I had the honour to submit. 

What Proportion of the Statute duty, by pecuniary pay- 
ments, instead of the mode at present adopted, do you 
conceive might be saved ? — I think, if one ihird of the 
present nominal value of the Statute labour was to be regu- 
larly paid into the hands of the treasurer^ that it would be 
more available to the public roads, tlian the present manner 
in which the work is done, and certainly less onerous to tlie 
agriculture of the country« 

James M^Adam^ Esq. called in ; and Examined. 

YOÜ are the son of the last witness ? — I am. 

Have you beenemployedasa general surveyor upon the 
turnpike roads ?— I have. 

Upon what roads have you been employed ? — Upon the 
EpsomandEwellturnpike roads of twenty-one miles; upon 
the Ileading road of six miles ; upon the eastern division of 
the Egham road, seven miles and a half; on the western divi- 
sion of the Egham road, eight miles and a half; on the Ches- 
bunt turnpike roads, of eighteen miles ; upon the Wades*mill 
turnpike trust of twenty-nine miles : on the old North road, 
or Royston road, of fifteen miles ; upon the Huntingdon 
road of ten miles; and on the road from Huntingdon to 


Somorsham of ten miles ; being togcther one hundred and 
twenty-five miles. 

How long have you been appointed to them ^— -My first 
appointment was in December 1817* 

Had you been previously in the habits of making the im- 
provement of turnpike roads your study ? — I had at Bristol^ 
under my father's tuition* 

The information you have acquired, I presume, theni has 
been entirely under your father's System ?-— Yes, upon my 
father's principles of making roads. 

And those plans which you have adopted, have been en- 
tirely conformable to the evidenoe which he has given before . 
this Committee ? — Entirely conformable to those principles 
which my father has stated in his evidence before this Com* 

Can you give the Committee any information with regard 
to the revenues of. the different roads under your manage« 
ment ?— The gross revenue of the trusts I have mentioned, 
of which I am general surveyor, is about 19,550Z. perannum. 

Hease to State to the Committee, the State of repair in 
which these roads were when they first came under your 
management ? — The roads in general were ii| a very loose, 
rough^ and heavy State, much overloaded with materials, the 
watercourses much stopped up, and the foads in general in 
a very bad State. 

What improvements have taken place upon them since 
your undertaking the care of them? — ^The Epsom and 
Ewell roads were put into a perfect State of repair düring the 
last spring and summer ; the Reading road has also been put 
into a perfect State of repair during the last summer; and 
the Cheshunt turnpike roads have been put into a good State 
of repair, notwitbstanding that the improvements commenced 
in October, and have been carried on through the whole 
Winter : the improvemcnt is proceeding rapidly in the other 
<listricts; butthe thrce roads I have mentioned^ are theonly 


trusts that are brooghi into a perfect State of repair. I vei> 
ture to speak freely and with great confidencey of the good 
slate of repair of these three trusts ; for the reason, that no 
credit whatever is attached to me, except what maj be con- 
sidered dueby the careful attention and zealous execution of 
my father's commands. The merits of the improvements are 
wholly bis own. 

Can you State to the Committee the expense with which 
these improvements have been accotnpanied ? — The expense 
upon the Epsom roads amounted to 1^929/. Ss, Id» in the 
ycar 1818; that is the only trust upon which I am enabled 
to State the twelvemonth's expenditure. 

In what Proportion has the expenditure been divided be- 
tween the labour of men, womcn, and children» and the 
price of qartage and of materials ? — I have paid for labour 
upon the Epsom roads, 1»146/. Is, 2d. ; for materials, 
98/. 10s, ; for cartage, 227/. 16^. ; for tradesmen's hüls, 
Sif2l,0s. lld.; for land to widen the roads, 115/.; which 
makes up the expenditure 1,929/. 8^. Id. I beg here to 
State, that I did not avail myself of any Statute duty upon 
the Epsom and Ewell roads. 

Can you State to the' Committee the expenditure upon 
these roads^ in the years preceding your having the charge 
of them? — ^I can; in the years 1815, 1816, and 1817, 
which are the three preceding years to my having the charge 
of these roads. In the year 1815, there was paid for 
labour, 379/. 14*. ; for cartage, 1,019/. 14«*. ; for gravel, 
486/. 15*. 5(/.; for tradesmen's bills, 178/. 6*. 3^.; making 
a total of 2,064/. 9*. 5d. In the year 1816, there was paid 
for labour 340/. 16*.; for cartage, 1070/. 7*. 6(/.; for gravel, 
563/. 1*. 10(/.; for tradesmen's bills, 382/. 4*. 5c?. making 
a total of 2,375/. 10*. 9c/. In the year 1817, there was paid 
for labour, 339/. 16*^.: for cartage, 1,103/. 16*. Sd.; for 
gravel, 551/.; for tradesmen's bills, 681/. 6*. Ic/.; making a 
total of 2,675/. 18*. 4fif.; independent of the Statute duty 

, 139 

upoii the several parishes, which were called folth by die 
ibrmer surveyor. 

Do you know the value of that Statute duty ?^Not having 
had occasion to call H forth» I am onable precisdy to an- 
swer the question ; but the parishes are wealthy» and the 
Statute labour must form a yery considerable amount 

I presume the comparative smallness of the expense which 
you incurred for materials must have arisen from making use 
of the old materials upon the road, by lifting them according 
to the plan which your father has described ?— -That was the 

In what State did you find the ezecutive department of 
these roads when you took charge of them ?— I found at 
Epsom a person as surveyor, who had beea an underwriter 
at Lloyd's Coffee-house, at a salary, as I am informed» of 
sixty pounds per annum, and who was permitted to keep the 
carts and horses, and do the cartage for the trnst. At 
Reading, I found an elderly gentleman as the sunreyor, who 
was also one of the commissioners, at a salary of twenty 
or thirty pounds per annum. I found at Cheshunt three 
surveyorsy the trust being diyided into three districts. 
One of the surveyors yitds an infirm old man, another'a car- 
penter, and another a coal-merchant I found on the 
Wades^mill trust three surveyors also, and the trust divided 
into three districts; one of these surveyors wasa^ery old 
man, another a publican at Buckländ, and the other a baker 
at Backway, with a salary of fourteen Shillings aweek each. 
I found on the Royston read a publican as surveyor there ; 
and I found at Huntmgdon a bedridden old man who had 
not been outof the house for several months» and who had 
been allowed by the commissioners to apply to a carpenter 
inthetownfor assistance, andto whom the commissioners 
allowed twenty pounds per annum; this person, who 
accompanied me in the survey of t,he roads, stated, that he 


ooüld^We but Ktde attestion to ihe managetaent of tlie road^ 
the salary being so small i and the State of thosbe roads bor& 
evidence to the truth of bis assertioti. 

- Withotit «nterlDg iato iadtvidaal oasesy do yoa cmisider 
tbat it was possible, £rom the natura of the cmarastanoes 
and engagements öf these parfies, that thay oould ^ve that 
attention to the roods whieh theiv improyesieBl reqomd^— 
I do Qpt consider it was at all likely that they would« 

What arraagements 4id you make ip the exeoutive de- 
partment of liiese roads afler you took the ^harge of th^m i*^ 
With the permission of the trustees» I appointed upon eaeh 
tmst an active sub^aun^or» whom I requtred to keep a 
bona» and to^wre ao other occupation whaterer. 

. Caxi you State to tiie Committea the espense of ^nploying 
such subHumrayors ?««>-The aalary: iof the enbrsorvej^rs in, 
ganerfd- 18 one huedrad gutneas a yaair ; and wh^i« the preve* 
nues of the tcust havebeen small, as in.the case of the 
Boyston roads and the Hanttagdon roads, I have «na4e one 
surreyor do the vduty of beiHh the trusta» m order that that 
eapelise joai^ be divfded« . 

What emoliimeots: have jtiou yourself derived from your 
employoiebt upon these trusts ?*^I am unable to «täte the 
pr0eiseaniount to the Gommittee ; for the jQea$ipn that I hava 
in 0verjr mHßB^ requ^stad of the tn»tees thatlhat leopr 
sid^ratiop i»ight be d^fenrad fi»r at least a twelyemooth after 
IwjM) bpopftred with tb^ chai^ of the road^; üpsoq^ ia 
tharefi)!^ the only rmA upeo which that perieid has elapse^; 
and mth the permilfB9ipn cf thß Con^mittae» I wi)l readthf^ 
resc^utioD epi^r^^picm the l^dger of the Spiom r oada upm 

21st Pecesrnber, 11313. 
W/e have examined th^ above accounts of Mr. M^Adam» 
the surveyor, from its commencement to thjs date^ and find 


thal the stini of 7SL 6ik Id, it due to Mr» M< Adam» by the 
tiust, mj ^ •* -* >• - - «^.75 6 1: 

Bot as DO «Uowanise faas beeti made to the 
nirv^fdir for hh nHnagemenli «ad m that ma- 
Bagement has gtven great iatirfaction to tlie 
tnuteea, ii waa resolvisd to pve the surveyor» 
to Cover all charg«^ and fdr bis trouble» it 
being dSgtuiCtly underatood for thia ytsar ooly, 
the auni of one bundrad aüd fifty guideas - 1^57 10 ^ 

£.232 16 1 

Wbich sum oi,2S2U l6iAd. the treasurer will be pleased to 
p^y to Mr, M/AdaiD. 

(Signed) T.Reidt Thomat HaUidä^^ , 

Edtoard Arekboldf WüliiMn DüUfdeswdl, 

Jekn WhU^ J. M. Cripps.*' 

Tkoikas Cühtvie^^ • 

With pennisaion of the Committeee I will relate what I 
stated to the trustees, uppn those resolutions being read to 
me ; that I coosidered that sum as e^tremely liberal, and 
quite 8u£Scient for one sxnall trost to give a geperal sur- 
vcgror» and were Epsom one • trust in a district, such a sum 
would be quite sufficient for their proportioa of the salary of 
a general surveyor ; but Standing alone» and divided from all 
other trusts of which I had the management» and separated 
also by the London roads, the necessity of n\y father's tra- 
v:elling from Bristol and reaiding some time at Epsom» and 
of 80 much being required to be done the first year in a new 
trusti that sum did no more than repay the actual expenset 
incurred. It will be obvious to the Committee that such a 
trust as Readiug^ consisting of six miles only, distant from 
Bristol e%hty milesi and from London forty miles» and 
antidpating an eqiial liberality on the part of the commis*- 


fioners tbere, no mm tucfa a Irust could be jottified in gmog 
to a general sunreyor oould repay even a sioiety of the ex- 
pense of superintendance ; the reward for my Services, tfaen, 
must be looked for in the convincing proof that my fether'» 
prindples of road-making are, if posnble, more applicable^ 
and more beneficial in a tnist where tbe materials are very 
bad than where they are good : my only object in troubling 
the Committee with these obserrationSf is to shov Ihat lin- 
less a district of roads are umted, the expense of a general 
superintendance would not be paid by any salaty such trust 
could be justified in giving. 

Can you State to the Committee the nature of the materials 
which you have employed in the different roads under your 
care ?— At Epsom there are flints ; at Reading a very small 
foul gravel, with a thick adhestve loam^ attached ; at Wal- 
tham Gross» on the Cheshunt roads, small foul gravel ; Ho- 
wards Ware» flints ; on the Wades-mill trust, flints ; on the 
Royston tnist, flint, gravel, and blue permet stone; at 
Huntiogdflo» f&at^ aad grspel ; Egham^ flint and gravel. 

Is there «ly pnrtictdar method whach you haire employed 
out of the common practice, for making use ojf these mate* 
rials?-^I have bestowed great labour, care and attention in 
the preparation of these materials in the pits, and in their 
Separation previous to their being brought upon the roads ; 
and also much labour and care for a length of time afler their 
being laid upon the read, untll it became perfectly smooth, 
hard and level. 

Can you State to the Committee the probable future ex- 
pense of keeping these roads in repair, afler they have once 
been put into good order, as compared with tbe annual out- 
goiogs under the old management ?— I am of opinion that 
the expense of maintaining these roads in good condition 
will be considerably less than the former expendityre ; for 
the reason, that the better a road is, the less the wear ; and 


ihat bhere w31 be a less quantity of materials requited, wfien 
properly prepared« than were fonneriy used, wheft* thej 
were brought to the road in a very foul and inproper ftate. 

Con you State generally, whetherthepR>p<»tk>n of labour, 
materials and cartage that you have described upon the 
Epsom trusty agrees with the same proportkm npon Üim 
other roads under yonr management ^--^Off aome of Ae 
other roads, tbe proportion of labour to eartage will be 
found greater than upon the Epsom read. At Cheäimt^ in 
five months, during which tbe roads have been ptit iato 
good repair, I have expended the aum ofdOOL forty of 
which alöne was paM for cartage* Upon die Wades-mili 
trust^ out of 600^ expended, not a sixpenoe was paid ihr 
cartage. Upoti tlie Royaton roads, where I have spent 500if. 
not any of it was paid for cartage» Upon the Huntingdoh 
roadi> I have spent ^. a week, tbe whole of which has been 
paid in labour. At Reading, daring eight months, 500^« 
were laid out, 400/. of which were paid for laboun 

Isityour opinion, that the proportion of labour, wages, 
and cartage, is likely to continue the same, in thefuture 
reparation of the roads ? — I am of opinion they will ; because 
there wil] be an increase of labour, in the preparation of the 
materials, previotrs to their being brought to the road; and 
also in the formation of the road after they are laid on. By 
a more careful and proper preparation of the materials» a 
much less quantity will be required to uphold the roads than 


formerly ; I am, therefore, of opinion, that the proportion 
of labout to cartage will continue the same. 

It appears, by your answer to a former question, that the 
expense of cartage has been much diminished, owing to your 
making use of the materials of the old road ; will not the 
proportiotiate expense of cartage for future years be iq- 
creased in consequence of your no longer having the re* 
«ource of breaking up the roads, but being obliged to repair 


them with fresh naaterials ?-^In some degree it certaii^Fy 

In what.way U the Statute labour atpresent performed 
upon these roadtt ?-— Upon two of the trusta only^ the Roy- 
ston road and the Huntingdon road, I have had occasion io 
avail myself of any Statute labour ; the fand upon the other 
trusts being more than sufficient to uphold the roads without 
having recourse to Statute labour. Upon these two trusts 
I have derived soroe small advantage from Statute labour* 

Colonel Charles Bro/oon^ called in ; and Examined.^ 

ARE you one of the commissioners of the turnpike road 
upon the Cheshunt trust ? — I am. 

How long have you acted ? — Several years» eight or ten 

Be kind eno^gh to explain to the Committee any receipt 
improvements which have taken place in the management 
and repairs of the roads within that trust?*— Smce the ne^ 
method has been adopted by Mr. M^Adaro, a very evident 
advantage has arisen to the roads ; they are now extremely 
good» and were formerly very indifferent ; I therefore attri- 
bute it solely to the present mode adopted by Mr. M^Adam 
for nothing can be better than the roads are at present. 

Can you State to the Committee, whether the improve- 
ment has taken place with an increase or a diminution of the 
expense ?— -l believe at about one-third less ; At least I un- 
derstand that it was taken at about one-third less. 

Has there been any increase upon the tolls upon these 
roads ? — Not since Mr. M^Adam has had any thing to do 
with them« I have every reason to suppose there will be 
a diminution, in consequence of the good State of the roads. 

Having heard Mr. M* Adam's evidence, can you give the 
Committee any further Information with regard to the means 
by which these improvements have been effected ?— I con- 


ceive that the möde of Mr. M^Adam has been ihe lAeans of 
making the roads so much better, that it is only wönderful 
whenwe see it now, that it has not taken place sooner, 
being founded upon the best principle possible. 

Can you State whether these improvements have taken 
place by the use of any new materials, or by a better appli- 
cation of the exisdng materials ?— By the bettet applicatioh 
of tlie existing materials, certainly. 

Have you found this iniproved System attended with any 
advantages, in regard to the employment of the poor within 
those parishes ? — With regard to the parish where I live» 
and where my property is situated, I have seen considerable 
improvement, since we have had the opportunity of sending 
our poor to be employed by Mr. M^Adam, who has siost 
readily employed every one we have sent ; and I can State 
noWf that we have not a man unemployed that I know of. 

Egekiel Hartmn, Eigquifei calied in and Examined. 

YOU are a commissioner of the turnpike read upon the 
Cheshünt trust ? — I am. 

Having heard the evidence of the last' witness ; can you, 
upon your own knowledge, confirm the testimony that he 
has given with regard to improvement of the roads within 
your trust under Mr. M'Adaän's inspectien, and the ad- 
vantages derived therefrom? — I can^ certainly. It is a 
matter of surprise to me, that so material an alteration 
has been already made in the roads, the advantages of 
which are obvious to every one trävelling the road ; and, 
as an additional pröof, the coachmen who are in the habit 
of driving that road have öonfirmed this Statement. I have 
witnessed also a similar improvement in the Epsom road, 
where the forward State of the improvement shows an 
additional proof of' the advantages derived from this System* 



Thomas Bridgemany fisquire, called in ; and Examinl 

ARE you a commissioner upon the Cheshunt trust T— 
I am. 

Having heard the evidence of the two last witnesseff 
does your judgment in all respects confirm the testimony 
which they have giyen^ in regard to the improvement which 
has taken place upon your roads> and the advantages de- 
rived from them? — ^Most assuredly. I have witnessed 
these roads for more than twenty years» in a variety of 
forms as a commissioner. I have observed the failure of 
two or three difierent sets of coachmen and coach con- 
cems down below» all of whom are now saying, that if 
this System continues they shall require a korse less. AH 
these parties were originally rauch prejudiced against the 
new System. 

John Martin Gripps^ Esquire, called in ; and Examined. 

YOU are a magistrate of the county of Surrey» and com- 
missioner of the roads upon the Epsom trust ? — I am. 

Can you inform the Committee what was the State of the 
roads within your trust, previous to the year 1818 ? — They 
were very bad» having no attention paid to the formation of 
the road ; having the water, in many places, going over the 
read; and great inattention paid to the breaking of the 
materials, and to the expense attending the carting of them. 

At what time did you commence the alteration in the 
System of management ? — At the latter end of December 
ISl?» when the roads were put under the superintendance 
of Mr. M'Adam» senior, and when bis son commenced the 

What alterations have since taken place in the State of the 
roads ?^— By a better formation of the road ; the materials 


Ibeing properly broken ; and the water carried under the 
road by trunks, or drains, with proper gratings. 

Referring to the particulan of the expenditure giyen by 
Mr. M^Adam, jun» in his evidence this day, can you con* 
firm the accuracy of those accounts ?— Yes ;. and I can ex- 
plain that the items for tradeamen's bills include the wharf« 
ing and repairs of Bridge« in each year ; I can add, that the 
Statute labour for 1815» 1816» and 1817» amounting to one 
hundred pounds each year, which Mr. M*Adam has not 
availed himself of in their improvements. 

Has the System of management pursued by Mr. M'Adam 
proved the raeans of giving employment to labourers in the 
districty and thereby les^ening the poor's rates ? — ^Very much 
so; and they have occasionally employed from twenty to 
thirty persons» stout able*bodied men> who otherwise would 
have been obliged to have been supported out of the parish 

Have you in consequence had any persons who were able 
to work who have been out of employ ? — Between twenty 
and thirty persons have been employed for the last three 
months in breaking flints, and in repairing and improving 
the roads, who otherwise must have come upon the poor's 
rates ; and all the persons who have been enabled to work 
have found employment in consequence of this improve« 
ment ; that . has been , the means of greatly relieving our 
poor's rates. 

Has the same System been extended to the private roads 
in that district ? — It has been adopted in some of the private 
roads of that district, and with the same beneficial effects. 

Can you State any particulars with regard to the necessity 
there has been for carting additional materials for these 
roads ? — ^At present Mr. M^Adam having lifted the roads, 
has found more than sufficient material for the support of 
those roads. 

K 2 


What liaTe been the materioli that bave been used t — Tbe 
materialsthat have been used are flints chiefly. 

Duriiig the State of improvement of these roads, bave the 
toUs been increased or redoced within yourtnist? — Atour 
last meeting» we agreed» that at the next letting, the tolk 
ahould be reduced from Maj next, for the benefit of agri- 
colture in general ; and that where twe Shillings and eight- 
pence is now paid, they will have now to pay one Shilling ; 
that with relation to the agricultural interest, will be a re- 
duction of twenty five pounds per mile. 

Within your own personal obserration, hare you known 
any other instance in which a road has been formed upon the 
«ame principles as those adopted by Mr. M^Adam ?-»! had 
an opportunity of obsenring in Sweden that the roads were 
more beautiful than any I ererbeheld ; they are formed in 
the same manner as by Mr. M^Adam» the materials broken 
extremely small. The material is the best in the world, as 
it is rocks of Granite ; and so well do they understand the 
necessity of breaking them emall, that you never behold 
throughout Sweden, a fragment of granite larger than the 
sise of a walnut» for the purposes of the roads* 

What is the shape of these roads ? — To the eye they 
appear perfectly flat ; but upon trial by the spirit level, there 
is a slight degree of convexity. 

WüUam Dou)detuneUj Esquire, called in ; and Examined. 

YOU are a commisstoner upon the Epsom trust?— 
I am« 

How long have you been a commissioner ?*-Abottt four or 
five yeara. 

Have you had any opportunity of observing the compa-^ 
f ative State of the roads since they were put under the care 
of Mr. M«Adam^ compared with that in which they were 


before ?— They were veiy bad when first put under Mr. 
M'Adam's care; they arenow, I think» very gopd. 

Do you attribute this to the improved System of manage, 
ment ?-<^Totally. 

Can you confirm the evidence that has been already giyen 
relative to the expenses of reptiiring the roads previously 
to that time and since ? — From the Statement made to me 
by the former sunreyor» and from Mr. M^Adam's Statement» 
I believe the Statements delivered in' to you are perfectiy 
correct. Considering the advantage which the public has 
derived from Mr. M^Adam's System, I have adopted the 
same upon the parish roads. I ofiered myself to the parish 
as their surveyori for the purpose of carrying that System 
into executioQ. I have fouad employment for all persona 
who wanted employment upon the parish roads, assisted 
occasionally by persons going to the publio roads under 
Mr. M^Adam. 

How long have you adopted this System upon the private 
roads ? — Ever since October last. 

From that period the whole of the poor have been em- 
ployed upon the parish roads ?-— From that period the whole 
of the poor that wanted employment, have been employed 
upon the parish rosd&^ or upon the public roads under Mr. 

Have those persons been employed by you, by piece- 
work or by day-work ?— -The roads were in such a State, and 
as I wanted knowledge to employ by piece-work, I have 
been compelled to employ them by day«work« 

From your expm'ience are you of opinton that these 
private roadi, made upon the new System which has been 
adopted, can be kept in good repair at a less expense 
thaa they formerly cost in their bad State ?—*At a very 
considerable less expense than formerly. 



Martis, 2iy die Martii, ^S19. 

Mr. Benjamin Farey^ called in; and Examined« 

YOU are, I believe, the surveyor of the Whitechapel 
road ? — I am. 

How long have you been in that office ?— Nine years. 

In what Situation did you find the road, al the time of your 
undertaking the raanagement ?— I found the Whitechapel 
road in a dreadful State, partly from the neglect of the sur- 
veyor, in laying on foul and improper materials. In the 
autumn of 1809, it was almost impassable. 

Gravel is the only material you have in that neighbour- 
hood.^ — Gravel is the only material we find, on or near the 

Is the traffic upon the Whitechapel road so great as to 
render it Impossible to preserve it in good Order with the 
present materials ? — It is impossible to preserve it in good 
Order at all times, with the present materials ; it is past the 
art of man. 

Do you consider the traffic upon that road, as greater 
than upon any other road out of London ? — I believe it is a 
heavier traffic ; there are not so many light carriages, as on 
some other roads. 

What speeies. of carriages do you consider do the most 
injury to your road \ — The carriages that do the most injury, 
are those with the widest wheels. 

In what way do you consider that they injure the road ? — 
By their great weights destroying the materials. 

Are the carriages you allude to, exemptfrom the payment 
of toUs ?— They pay much less toUs. The pressure, or 
crushing of materials by the wide wheels, is owing to the 
wheels not running flät« 

Bcing of a conical shape ? — Being of a barrelled and 


conical shape» and the middle tire projecting above the 
othersy with rough nails. 

Do you coDsider, that if those wheels were made of a 
cylindrical or flat shape, it would be good policy to grant 
them any exemption from fcoUs ? — They would be less in- 
jurious for being cylindrical; but whenever the road was 
at all out of the level, and the weight came on one edge 
of the wheely the road would be destroyed there. 

Upon the whole» is it your opinion that there are any 
circumstances which justify an exemption from toll, on 
account of the breadth ^of the wheels ? — I do not see any 
at all, for I think they are injurious in every sense, on . 
account of the great weights they carry. 

Do you consider that injury is done to the roads, in 
consequence of the use of single shafls in waggons?^- 
Very great« 

In what way?— In consequence of single shafts^ the 
horses follow in one track, in the centre of the carriage ; 
and the wheels also follow each other in other tracks» and 
cut ruts : if there were double shafls, they would naturally 
avoid former wheeltracks, which would be less injurious 
to the road. 

Do you consider it therefore desirable to give encou- 
ragement to double shafts ? — ^I do. 

Do you consider the watering of that road in any way 
injurious ?— I consider that watering that road in summer, 
is very injurious* 

In what respect ? — The water separates the stonesi owing 
to the soflening of the loam, and makes the road spongy 
and loose* 

At what periods do you consider it injurious to water 

the road for laying the dust ? — Before May and after August. 

Have you not a practice of sometipies watering in winter, 

when there is no dust ?«- After the most careful sifting of the 


grdveli a small. quantity of loamy dirt will unavoidably still 
adhere to the stones, and this loatn, together with a gluti- 
nous matter which accumulates in the summer. from the 
düng and urine of the cattle (which accumulation the Sum- 
mer watering has a tendency to increase) occasions th& 
wheels to stick to the materials, in certain states of the 
roady in spring and autumn, when it is bet^een wet and dry, 
particularly in heavy fpggy weather, and after a frost ; by 
which sticking of the wheels^ the Whitechapel road is oflen, 
in a short time, dreadfully tprn and loosened up; and it is 
for remedy ing this evil, that I have, for m pre than eigbt 
years past, occasionally watered the road in winter. As. 
soon as the sticking and tearing up of the materiala is ob- 
served to have commenced^ several water-carts are em- 
ployed upon these parts of the road» to wet the loamy an<i 
glutinous matters so much> that they will no longer adhere 
to the tire of the wheels, and to allow the wheels and feet of 
the horses to force dowi^ and.a^ain fasten the gravel stones ; 
the traffic, in the courgo of four to twenty«four hours after 
watering, forms suc^ a dudge on the surface, as can be 
easily raked off by wooden scrapers, which is performed a?^ 
quickly as possible ; after which the road is hard and smooth, 
the advantages of this practice of occasional winter wat^ring 
have been great; and it might, I am of opinion» be adopted 
with like advantagejs on tl^e. other entrances intOxLondon» or 
wherever eise the traffic is great^ and the gravel stones arer 
at times observed to be torn up by the sticking of the 

In what State of the road are you in th^ habit of layipg 
on fresh materials? — I prefer laying on materials icuipe- 
diately. after the roäd has bad a scraping, in consequence of 
there being upon the surface of the road a small quantity of 
dirty matter and hrpken gravel^ which theo forms a soxt of 
cement for the gravel to fix in. 


You consider it advantageous to lay on the ttiateriak when 
the road is wet ^— *I do, because the gpravel adheres oloser» 

Considering the very great traffic upon the Whitechapel 
road, is h your opinit>n that it would be adva&tageous to pave 
any part of that road ? — 1 think it vrould be desirable to pave 
it; lyithin some feet of the footpath more particularly. 

What breadth from the sides of that road would you con* 
sider it desirable to have paved ? — About eleven or twelve 
feet from the footpath. 

You would consider it a desirable pkn to pave the sides of 
that road in prefereoce to the centre ?-«-Certainly. 

For what reasons? — If the centre was paved» the light 
carriages would be very much annoyed; when the gravel 
road was good on the sides^ the heavy carriages would go 
there, and the üght carriages would be driven on the stones 
from the aides again ; if the centre was paved the Carter« 
would be obliged to walk on that road to manage their 
horses> and would be considerably annoyed by carriages» 
horsemen, &c. passing : but if the sides of that- road were 
paved, the Carters would be enabled to walk on the footpath 
and to manage their horses witfaout annoyance. 

What is the shape of road which, fromyour experiencoy 
you would give the preference to ? — I would have the road 
barrelled, ajid made so as that it would convey off the water 
in the severe weadier in winter, when the roads are generaUy 

Which do you give tbe preference to, a road with a flat 
surface, or one that gradually declines from the centre ^— 
I think a road which gradually declines from the centre is 
by far the most preferable, decidedly so« 

What is the degree of the declivity or fall which you 
would recommend as the mpst desirable ? — I have paid par« 
ticular attention to the Whitechapel road, where it is of the 
width of 55 feet, and the fall from the centre to the sides is 


12 inches; bui to attain this shape» when the road ia worn 
dowDy when first covered with gravel, there ahould be a fall 
not exceeding from 16 to 18 inches from the centre to the 
sides. [ The wUneis^Uvered in a cross sedion qf the road»2 

1b it your opinion tfaat anj parliamentary regulatlon with 
regard to stage coaches is necessary for preventing injury to 
the road ?-— None. 

You think it desirable that they should remain as at 
present?— Yes* • 

What 18 the State of the Whitechapel road now, as com- 
pared with what it was some years ago ?-»During the greater. 
part of the year, it is now one of the most pleasant roads 
out of London to travel upon ; but from the gravel being 
small and brittle> it is soon worn down» by the great num» 
ber of heavy weights passing on it. With the small gravel 
we have in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, the road at 
times breaks up, and becomes in a bad State ; but by the 
application of water, to stop the sticking of the wheels, and 
separate the sludge, in two days they are found in a good 
State again, 

Have you any other Suggestion to make to the Committee 
for the improvement of that road, or of roads in general ?— 
On that roady very great improvement roight be made, in 
not allowing the wide wheels to pass by paying so little toll, 
orto carry so great weights as at present; if the narrow- 
wheeled waggons were to use double shafU, they would be 
Icss iiijurious to the roads : even with narrow-wheeled carts, 
if the two fore-horses were double» the shafts not being in 
their track, it wbuld be less injurious to the roads, 

JohnFareyt Esquire» called in ; and Examined« 

WHAT is your profession ?— I am amineral surveyor and 


Have you turned your attention to the ttate of the roadf 
in the different districts of the kingdom?— I have» very 

Can you furnish the Committee with any information with 
regard to the State of those roads» as compared with former 
years ? — I can ; I have particularly attended to that subject 
more especially in the time of the late duke of Bedford» for 
whom I was an agent. I have since been employed in nearly 
every part of England and Wales, and also in Scotland: 
and I have Statements by me of the varioos observations I 
have made. 

You have been employed under the late duke of Bedfbrd, 
in the improvement of the roads in the neighbourhood of 
Woburn ? — In the management of his roads in Bedfordshire, 
and of all his rural works. 

Describe what improvement of the main read has taken 
place under your direction» in Woburn ? — ^The whole of the 
line of the road through Woburn» except about three hun« 
dred yards in different places, is on a very streng alluvial 
clay : the road passes over naked sand, only for three hun- 
dred yards ; this road had been rendered so sandy and so 
bad, entirely by bringing soft sand-stone out of Bucking« 
hamshire, at three miles carriage, upon the average, in 
Woburn, and some of thatstone was brought almost to Ihe 
end of Hockliff Town, where the best gravel abounds. It 
appeared, from the remains of a number of gravel-pits» 
that there had been formerly a great deal of gravel dug in 
Woburn; this circumstance I mentioned to the duke of 
Bedford, and he desired search to be made; and it wasas« 
certained that Wöbum might furnish gravel enough» ade- 
quate to any purpose. In consequence of which, his Grace 
directedy when the labourers were much in want of employ* 
menty that the poor persons should be employed in pre- 
paring a great quantity q( gravel for the purposes of this 



turnpike roaa. I undertook to direct the taking of this 
gcavel duty and to level the siflings and dirt in a uniform 
inanner> and lay all the soil again upon the top; by which 
means the land waa in no degree injured, but, in fact, con- 
siderably benefited, by being looscned to that depth. A 
great many hundreds of cubic yards of clean-sifted and 
picked gravel were prepared in numerous Square Stacks^ and 
the trustees at a meedng, or eise their clerk, were infohned, 
that this gravel bis Grace ofPered to the road at the mere 
cost of labour, without any thing for the gravel, or the 
temporary damage to the occupiers of the land* After a 
long time of hesitation, the trustees or their clerk returned 
an answefy that they did not like that mode^ alleging that 
their surveyor ought to be allowed to dig materials where 
and how he liked, and they would not have this gravel : it 
lay there, some of it for two or tfaree years, upon the land« 
In that time a number of private roads were niaking of bis 
Grace's, and a good deal of it was used on these. The 
main road became progressively worse and worse, and tlie 
post-office caused the parisb to be indicted, I was then 
surveyor, and made an application to the trustees, stating 
the circumstances the road was under : that road-trust is 
thirteen miles in length, two of which, or rather more, are 
in the parish of Woburn ; there is a toll-gate in the parish, 
which the inhabitants are liable to all the toll of ; some of 
them, even in going and retuming to and from their fields : 
the trustees had exacted very strictiy ihe half of the Statute 
duty, although the parish had, I think, eleven miles of 
private roads to maintain. I mention this circumstance to 
show there was no default on the part of the parish ; and it 
was afterwards proved, that they had done their duty ; the 
trustees merely laughed at the application, andsaid, that 
they had nothing to do with it : we must repair the road, 
and tili we did so, they would not lay out a farthing upon 


our road. It happened, very fortunately for the paf Uh of 
Woburn, that their act was very nearly out, and they applied 
for a new one; the parish opposed it, statiog, that thetrus- 
tees had misapplied the toHs» and praying^ that the pari 6i 
the road, through Woburn, should be taken out of thek 
management; the act accordingly directed, that two-thtr- 
teenths of the tolls should be paid over to the parish survey- 
ors of Woburn, and the trustees were not to call fot any 
6tatute-duty, or interfere in the management of this part of 
the road ; in consequence of this, the gf arel tnentioned, 
whtch remained, and greai quantities dug bn purpöse, was 
used upon the road, in a sufficient quantity at once, so iü 
to admit of its settHng down together ; for it wanted liniä^ 
nine inches thick, or more, and the road has sinoe been per- 
fectly good. 

Jovis, 96^ die Mßrtii, 181». 

John Fiiriyf Esquire, called in ; and Examined, 

IN effecting the improvement of the Woburn road» did 
you make use of any particular mode (^applying the gravel ? 
— >The gravel, before the time of using it, had been very 
clean sifted, and separated from the dirt and sand ; the great 
stones had been picked out, and such of the flints whicl^ 
were of a long and irregulär shape, in order that they might 
be broken. After laying the gravel upon the road men were 
daily employed to rake the gravel into the ruts^ and, at the 
same time, to carefully pick off the surface any stones that 
were either soft or improperly shaped« like long flints, or too 

What is your opinion, in regard to the form the most pre- 


ftrable for turnpike roads ?*^A small convexity in tbe 

Will you State the fall, in any given width of road, that 
you would prefer?-— Referring to my brother^ Mr. Benjamiii 
Farey's evidence, I agree with him in wishing that the sec- 
tion which he produced, might be received by the Com* 
mittee, as an answer to this question. 

Is there any particular circumstance) in the formation of 
roads» more particularly applicable to the immediate neigh- 
bourhood of London ? — ^In the neighbourhood of London^ 
and of several other large townsy the materials that are to 
be readily prociused, are of too tender and brittle a nature 
to endure the wear of the heayy carriages; I therefore am 
of opinion, that it would be proper to pave the sides of all 
tbe principal entrances into London; but not the middle, a» 
has been done on the Commercial road and Borough Stones'* 
ead road« My reasons for preferring the sides being paved 
are» that it is next to impossible to compel the Carters to 
keep upon tbe pavement in the middle of the road, in toa 
many instances ; the fear of damage, from the swift going 
carriages, occasions them, either to draw their carts close to^ 
the sides, and walk upon the footpaths, or what is worse to 
leave their borses in the middle, beyond a train of carrfages. 
The sides being paved, would enable one of those trains of 
carriages to enter London on one side of the road, and go 
out of it on the other, without many occasions to turn out 
of their tracks : which keeping nearly to the same tracks» 
upon a weli-paved road, would not be prejudicial; but on a 
road fbrmed of gravel is entirely ruinous. 

Do you consider that the plan of rolling the roads in the 
neighbourhood of London might be advantageously intro«- 
duced ^— >Tho centre of the roads I should recommend ta 
remain oovered with clean-sifted and picked gravel, having 


as many as possible of its large, roundish and smooth stoncs 
brokenby means of a bammer before the time of laying it ob 
the roady and that an beavy iron roller, of from fbur to five 
feet diameter, and not less, might be advantageously used in 
the first settling down of this gravel; a small roUer» such as 
I believe to have been tried in the neighbourhood of London« 
very heavily loaded on its top, might have a tendency to 
force the loose gravel before it so as not easily [to be drawn 
or to mount on to the gravel driven before it without crosb^ 
ing the flinte. I will add« I am of opinion, that aroUer could 
not be beneficially used upon a read at any otfaer times but, 
afler new coating it with gravel» or after a frost or the 
sticking of materials to the wheels may have loosened up the 

Do you consider that the present regulations in regardto 
exemptions of toUs to waggons with broad wheels, are jus« 
tified by sound policy ?— In my opiniön, those exemptions 
have wholly originated in mistaken prineiplesy and that no 
wheels wider than about six inches are now, in fact, used 
upon the roads, owing to the general and gross deceptions 
which the waggoners practise as to the breadth of surface 
that their wheels roll on ; and that if by any more efiBcient 
regulations, the users of broad wheels were compelled to roll 
the breadths of surface, which the laws contemplate, all such 
wheels would be immediately disused, from the great addi- 
tional force of draught which broad wheels occasion during 
the average State of all the roads« 

Are you of opinion that any regulation by Statute, for G(ub» 
stituting cylindrical for conical wheels» would remedy that 
evil, or justify an exemption from toll ?-^As far as I have 
x>bserved, there are no conical wheels in use : all the wheels 
are rounding or barrelled, and it is comparatively an {mma^ 
terial circumstance whether they approach the form of a cone 
or a cylinder, while they remain so rounding or barrelledn 


blscause thjBir enormous loads roll on a rery small portion of 
tbe surface of all those broad wheels. I think that six-incb 
^Hndrical wheels, or undef» are the most practicable anä 
tnefuly prorided the projectihg nails are inost rigidly })ro- 
hibitedy which I believe can never be done but by a pe- 
nalty per tiäil updn tbe wheelers who put in those nafls, and 
tlpon the drivers of the carriäges ^ho used such roüghly- 
nailed whefels. 

Are you of öpinron thät the penalties now fixed by law 
tipOn örer-weights are regulated upon gobd principles ? — I 
tondider the #hoIe System as to penalties lipon oyer-weight^ 
geherallybad; thepr^iient regulaiiöns seem to me främed 
ttpoh titistaken principles, and äre the söurce Öf Very great 

tu irlibt ikitöner mighl thä penalties and tblM upon carts 
tmd Waggons be best fixed f'-^It is not practicable to ver^ 
idmply or in this way State any one scale that wduld be ge* 
Mrälly applicable fer eaeh b^eadth of trheels: below fiix 
ifliehes» thefe should be a rtü^ £xed^ #Hieh would apply tö 
otdinary or gate^'tollsy dnd at the Weighihg tnadiines addi* 
ttondi toll8> which I will call machiiie-tollSy should be leviefl 
tipOB all carriag^s which exceeded the weight, to be regii- 
lated in an increasing scale for eaeh breadth of wheely so as 
very greattly to discourage, but not ruinously to prohibit the 
öocüfiiilbflft car^ying of large Weight» upon any wheels. 

You are not, then> of opinion that it would be right to dd 
«way the regulations altogetlier in respect to the weight^v 
flSid a^yportioü üte tölls only to the nümber of horses f-^By 
tkoineaüis. . . 

Are you acquatnCed With any part^cdar weighing machinä» 
wkidi ^iat^s the^' oottimon objection iit regard to itnposi^ 
lion» by Che znachnlie-keepers ?— I am ; Mr. Salmony of Wo^ 
bttttiy many years agoy contrived, and had a patent (whieh 
hasesipired) fora weighing machine, intended to prevent 


itnpositions on ibc Carters: themachine beingso contriired 
as to be locked up from the machine-keeper, and accessible 
ooly to the surveyori aod so as to exhibit the exact weight by 
a revolving index» Hke the hands of aclock» whieh are caUed 
clock-face Indexes a great number of these weighing machines 
have long been in use in thekingdom, some in the immediate 
environs of London : by looking at the index of which ma« 
diine, the cartef) or any passer bj, may see that the ma- 
chine, before the carriage is drawn upon its weigh-bridge, is 
in just balance ; and all the time the carriage renoains upon 
the weigh-bridge, the index exhibits the weight, sb that the 
Carter can take it down ; and at the same time the dial*plate 
18 made an abstract of the law, by there being written against 
each of the weights fixed, the breädth of the carriage-wheel, 
and the season to which that weight is applicable ät the com- 
mencement of penalties €or over-weights« 

Can yott infbrm the Committee of the expense of a ma- 
diine of this description ?— I cannot ; but it is trifling, com- 
pared with its advantages, and an index may be added to a 
machine upon the common principle, using weights» placed 
in a Scale { they ikiay be applied to any good machine already 
in use« 

Are you of opinion there exists aiiy necessity for Hmiting 
the number of horses in carts and waggons, upon roads 
where there are weighing-machines ?— I am of opinion not; 
and even doubt the propriety of calculating the gate-toH by 
the number of horses which draw the carriage« ' Upon pri« 
▼ate or parish roads^ where no machines are erected, there 
seems, howeter, no other mode of regulating or preventlng 
excessive loads being carried, to the ruin of the roads, than 
Hmiting the number of horses; but in case of the practica 
becoming general, which already prevails in many öf the 
towns in the middle of England,^f there being a weighing- 



madiine, kept bjr ä ootttiger, at all the prindpal entnntods of 
the town, at whkh he itaothorized (l^y the local magistaralesr 
I kdlewef) to odled a mall toll for eadi we^hiiig» f|>F thdie 
wfao Toluntarily app^f to him» by whidi means aü loada 
pasiiiigioto and out of «ach towns, may be, and the greaier 
part of theui are now, weigfaed ; aad if diis were adopted in 
the eamtooM of London, (with the addkion of a yard and 
a warehotMOrwhereaearter whohat inadvertently taken ^^ 
too largo a Iqad, either of diuig, furnitorei or other artidM» 
of the weightaof wfaioh he ooold not be aoourately inforoied» 
mtty leam tiie samei end where» npon the result of thib 
weighiBg, if it ftbottU be discovered that ho bad mach too 
largo a load» he ooidd there throW off and depotit a part of 
il, ehhor to abandon it if of small ndiie like daifg, or ta 
take it op IW)tii the warohoute, at a (teure tiine») theie to- 
trance weij^ung-machiiiet woold romolre the only vaiid ob-r 
joetion to weighiDg the loada ofnaniire going öut of London» 
by wbick the roada are at pr^iedt laore citt öp and ift^ 
atroy^i than by any okber deacriptioa of cairii^eB. 

WQl yott haire the goödneaa to State dtt prineiple üpon 
whidi you prefer that the tdia ahould be r^;nlated eatlrely 
by weights and breadih of wheels» withont regard to the 
nnoabor of hoifaea drawmgf«*^Becaiiihi nofthing ean be inore 
Tague or unsatisfiM^tory» than the latter moide of definiitg 
weights, or pre?enting the cerryitig of ; exoessivO load^ 
beca^Mo horses are of such rery diferent degrees of -slae^ 
cbndition and strei^gthi aad the hoaianity or otherwise of 
tbei^ drivers are so Torjr diflferent; but more on aocoont of 
the tery great inequaüty of the difierent roads of the kiog* 
dorn, n^ch this ^neral regidaäon is now mäde td apply to, 
as to the nomber and steepiiess of th6 hüls : the ptecaulä&otf 
that bare beeu ^ised, of setting np posts upon the tops aod 
bottom of Ibofle st^eps» to defiae where extra horses may 


he wed» are entirelf beeome useiesf, com^pwmüy^y^.n&ae^f 
jihe hüls now remain, to any leogth, with so great a ^^groe 
of sieepness» as to cause it to be worth any one's while tp 
kaop bonos ttationed there» for tbe purpose of . asauliog 
JieaiTy carriagfs up thote hilb for bire s .stüli ioM has it oc- 
corredi that tmy waggoner has spare biurads foUowing bis 
vqggotif Ibr whicb be must paj toUs, ia order to avaO bim- 
seif of tbis useless permissioo» to tise any number of horses 
«p tbe sttep.biUs. 

Are you of opinion diat stage-coaches require« or Wcvid 
admk of any regofaitaon witb rcapect lo their. wbeeb or 
weigbts ?— I am doady of Opiniön» tbat tfaey would Jiot ; for 
in traveliing, when it hashappeued tfaaft I coold notgeta 
seaSiOD tbfi inml «kf tbe coacb» I bare, tbroogh nifny loi^ 
4sya^ earefiinf aHaade^ te di»..isqp«e8Bioii made .by tbe 
wbeds of tbe carriages uponirbidi I bave been traveUhig 
j(«beii tbey bav« been among tbe Aeaviest loaded ooäicbes) 
ttd hmre compared these impressioiis with those of the carts 
attd Waggons, particularly broad-wbeeled ones, whicb we 
met; from whicb- observations, and other more particalar 
ones» I am of opinion, that the injury done to the roadö by 
4be eoacbes, compared with their Utility and the tolls they 
pay, is not such as to jiistify taj legal vestraint on iheir 
whe^ or weighlB. * 

Are you of opini<»if that it would be attended with any 
«drantage to the roads, to encouragey by any regulation or 
exemption from tolls, the use of carriages, varjring the letigth 
4>f thek flixles, so as to prerent their Tunning in tbe same 
tiadcs ?— I am a£ qpinion it would be very benefidal, and 
bava particiilarly so stated to the Board of Agricultm*e, with 
an example of the toUs over a new road^ which are so regtt« 
lated in Derbysbire : in addition to which, some inducement 
in the abatement of toHs, mijght be made to those carriages» 

L 2 


which now generally use Single shafU» like the farmers' ^arl» 
/and waggonsy on their adopting double shafts, so that aM 
their horses may draw in pairs ; this being applicable even to 
three-borse carts» as far as concerns the tvro foreiQose. 
Stage-coacheSy for tbe reasons here alluded to, as tbey do 
all draw in pairs» and rery seldom follow in any previous 
and deep rut, do far less damage ti» the roads than otherwise 
would happen ; their springt alsoi and awiftness of motioo> 
contributing, yery materially» to lessening their wear of the 

Are you of opinioa that any advantage would be derived 
from the general commutation of Statute duty ir— I have long^ 
beenof opinion that the.whole principle of Statute duty, as 
now regulatedy is erroneous; labour in kind should entirely, 
cease : and the surveyor collect a more equable rate, on aU 
property in bis township ; the present regulations for calling 
out the teams and making of a road-rate, are so complicatedy 
as to be above the capacity of the majority of parish survey- 
arst whoinmost or all instances collect the rates for the 
tumpike roads as well as the private roeds« 

Will you State your opinion of the Statute liAour, as ii 
particularly applies to turnpike roads ?-^In all the local rpad 
acts which I have examined, one half of the atatute duty of 
each township is apportioned to each toll xoad which passea 
througb any part orcomer of .that township» which in innu- 
merable instances» is very highly prejudicial; a»> 
portion of the fair road rate^ as already raentioned» should be 
payable to each toll road» whece there are move than one in 
the township» in proportion (or nearly so» as the quarter 
sessions might order) to all the lengths of all the roads 
withln the township which it contributes tO: repair. 

From your Observation of the di&rent. roads throughouft; 
the kingdom» do you think that tmportant advantages would 


"be derived from their being placed under skilful surveyors, 
aotiog for large districts ?— -At present, the separate truste 
4re so exceediDgly different in extent, many of them extend- 
ittg onlj three, four and five mHes, while others have fifly or 
a hundred miles of road under their truists, that it seems 
inpracticabley In many trusts, to employ a very skilful and 
impotent surveyor, on aecount of the great and unnecessary 
«X|^nse that woold be incurred on the short lengths. of road; 
bttt if the legislature should see it right to.enact the 
appotntment of thoroughly competent district sunreyors, who 
night have the superintendence and control, to a defined 
«xtenty over Üie officers of the local trustees of . tumpike 
roads; as well as otot the surveyörs of the parish roads within 
their districts, the most important advantages would result« 

Do yoa not think great inconvenience arisesfrom the great 
numbers generally fbund forming commissioners of turnpike 
trusts ?— From my own experience, I cannot say that I have 
Seen any evil from the great number of trustees, on the con- 
trary, the greatest mis-management that I have seen in any 
roads» has arisen from the dergymen of the districts being 
almost the only acting trustees ; the greatest and most active 
land owners frequently having no share in such trusts : the 
late duke of Bedford, for instancei not being a trustee in the 
vicinity of Woburn for many years after he took an active 
part in improving the district. 

James Walker ^ £sq. called in ; and Examined. 

YOU are a civil engineer ?*-! am. 

In the course of your experience have you turned your 

attention to the making and repairing of roads ? I have 

been employed in the making and repairing of several roads, 
and the regulation of others. 


Id what p&rt of ihe kingdom Imve you been employ^d, 
and what observations haye occurred to you upon tbte ^ub- 
ject ?— Tbe whole of the works executed under tbe Com- 
iDercial Road, tbe Eagt India Road, the Barking Read» 
and the Tilbury Road Acts, faave been üdder my' directiori, 
as well as tbe roads made under the Bridge and Dock Com- 
paniesy ibr which I have been engineer. The Commercittl 
Roady whicb is between the West India Docks and Londbti 
is referred to in the report of a former Committee on high- 
ways, as particularly well fitted for heavy traffic ; that road 
18 seventy feet wide, and is divided into two footways, eadi 
ten feet, and a carriage roiEul' fißy feet wIde, of which 
twenty feet in the middle is paved with granice. I have 
a section of the form of this road (No. 1, in the an- 
nex^d plan.) The £ast India Dock branch of the Coni- 
^mercial Road is also seventy feet wide» ten feet of whidi 
is paved with granite. I have prepared also a sectidn 
of thal road (No. 2, in the plan.) The traffic üpon the 
Commercial Road, böth up and down» is very great, and 
^necessarily required a width of paving sufficient for' two 
carriages tp pass upon it. I am quite sure thät the 
expense of this road would have beeil very much greatär, 
pirobably much more than doubled if it had not been paved» 
and that the carriage of goct^s would also have been much 
more expensive ; indeed it would have been next to impos- 
sible to have carried the present loads upon a gravelled road. 
The road has been paved for about sixteen years» and the 
expense of suppörting it has been small» although the stage- 
coaches generally» as well as almost all the carts and Wag- 
gons, go upon it ; while the expense of the gravelled part 
käs beeü comparatively great. Duridg the thirteen year^ 
that the East India Dock branch has been paved, the paving 
has not cost 20A in r^pairs, although the Waggons, each 


wdgliing about five tons, with the whole of the East India 
jiroduce» which is brought from the docks by land, bave 
pawed all that time in one track upon it, and a great deäl of 
heayj countiy traffic for the last eight years, when a com- 
muDication was formed with the county of Essex. The 
advantage of paving part of a read where the traffic is 
greaty and the materials of making roads bad or expensive 
is not confined to improving the conveyance for heavy goods 
and redudng the horses* labour ; but as the paying is always 
preferred for heavy carriages, the sides öf a read are left 
fyr Ifght carriages» and are kept in mach better repair than 
otherwise they could possibly be« It is not> I am sure, 
overstating the advantage of the paving, but rathet othefw 
wise, to say» that taking the year tliroughi two horses will 
do more work» with the same labour to themselves, up6h 
ia paved read than three upon a göod gravelied road, if ihe 
traffic upon the gravelied read is at all considerablei and if 
the effect of this, in point of expense, is brouglib into 
figuresy the saving of the expense of carriage will be found 
to be very great when compared with the cost of the paidng. 
If the annual tonnage upon the Commercial Köäd is taiken 
at 250,000 tonsi and at the mte of only S^, per feeH fidmtfie 
Docks, it could not upon a gravelied rbad be done ünder 
4s. 6d, say however 4«. or Is. per ton düference, making a 
saving of 12,500^, or nearly äie whole expänse of the 
paving in one year. I Aink I am ünder the matk in all 
these figures» andl am convmcied diereföTcf thAtdleiiitro- 
duction of paving would, in many cases, be productive of 
great advanta^, by improving the-gravd read, redüeing 
the expense of repaks, and caumng a sliving of horsea* 
labour much beyond what there is, I belleve» any idte <rf^. 
The expense of a ton of Aberdöen granite päving-stones Uud \ 
in London, or in any similar Situation, Including laying, and )\ 
eyery expense» is about 85«. ; the cost of the sanie weigfat of ^ 


gravel is from Ss. ßd, tö 6s. The cost o( granitc pwitigr 

9 iDches deep> is from Ss, 6d^ to 10«« 6d. per superficial 

yardy or from 7502« to 920/. per rolle for every yard in widtb« 

I Guernsey grantte is harder and more durable tban Aberdeen 

\ granite» but is more expensive by about 10 per cenW aad 

j I tfaink is this much better. Some stone of very good 

/ quality from near Greenock, bas bcen used lately upoQ the 

Commercial Road, it is ebeaper thab Aberdeen, and appears 

to be very durable. The requtsttes for formiog a good 

pating are to have the stoncs properly squared and shaped, 

not as wedges» but nearly as rectangular prisms; ta sort 

them into classes aecording to thelr sizes, so as to prevent 

junequal sinkingy which is always the elFect of stonesy or 

rows of stones, of unequal sizes being mixed together; to 

have a foundation properly Consolidated before the road is 

begoa to be paved^ and to have the stones laid with a close 

I joint^ the courses being kept at right aogles from the dtrec*- 

üon of the sideSy and in perfectly straight lines, the joints 

carefiiUy broken, tha^ is» so that the Joint between two 

stones in any one course shall notbe in a line with« or op- 

( posite toa Joint in any of the two courses adjoiniog« Afler 

I the stones are laid they are to be well rammed, and such of 

the stones as appear to ram löose, shoukl be takeo out and 

replaced bjr others ; after this the joints are to be filled with 

fine grarely and if it can be done conveniently» the stability 

of the work wül be increased by well watering at night the 

part thathasbeen doneduring the day, and ramroing itover 

*again next morning. The surface of the pavement is then 

to: be covered with an inch or so of fine graveU ^at the 

joints tnay be always kept füll, and that the wheels may net 

come in contact with the stones while they are at all loose in 

their places. Attention to these points will very much in- 

crease both the smoothness and uurabllity of the paving. 

1 have found great advantage from filling up, or» as it is 


called^ grouting the joints with litne« water, which fioda iU 
way into the gr^vel between and under the stones, and 
form» the whole lato a solid concreted mass. The purpose 
ierved by. the lime mjght also be effectually. answered 
by mizing a little of the borings or chippings of kon^ or 
suiall scraps of iron hoop, with the gravel used in filling up 
the joints of the paving. The water would very soon create 
an oxide of iron, and form the grayel into a species of rock« 
i bave Seen ft piece of ru»ty hoop taken from under water, 
to which the gravel hadso connected iteelf, forTour or five 
incbes round the hoop, as not to be separated without a 
amaU blow of a haiuaier. And the cast-iron pipes which ^xe 
laid in moist gravel soon exhibit the same tendency. 

It has oocurred to me, aa I stated to the chairman of this 
]iQnourable CQU^mittee some weekssince, that considerable 
improvement would be found from paying the sides of a road, 
upon. which the heavy traffic is greati^ in both directionsi and 
leaving the niiddle for light carriages, the Carmen Walking 
upon thelbotpaths or sides. of theroad, would then be clqse 
to tbeir horsesi without interrupting, orbeing in danger of 
accidents f^om light carriages, which is the case when they 
are driving upon. the middle of the road; and the uopaved 
part being in. tbe tniddle or highestpart of the read, would 
be more easUy kept in gopd repair. I have prepared ß, sec- 
tion of a road formed in thisway (No. 3 in the plan) , but 
unless the heavy traffic in both directions is great, one 
width (saytenor twelve feet, if very well paved^ ^lU be 
fouodsufficient; and in this .case, I think the paving ought 
to be in the middle of the road. The width of many of the 
present roads, is, besides, such, that ten or twelve feetcan 
be spared for paving, while twice that width would leave too 
little for the gravelled part. Although the first co$t of 
paving is so great, I do not think that any other plan caq 





be adopted so good and so cheap in those places where ihe 
materials got in the neighbourhood are not sufficient for 
supporting tbe roads* A coating of whinstone is» föv in«* 
stanccy more durable tban tbe gravd witb wbicb the roads 
round London are made and repaired; but mudi lest s» 
tban paving ; altbougb tbe freigbt and carriage of tbe whin« 
stone» and of the paving-stones, which form tbe principal 
items of tbe expense, are nearly tbe same. Scotch wbin- 
atone» or tbe granite rubble (tbat is» rough cbippings of 
granite,) could not, I ahould tbink, be delivered into bargea 
in tbe river, at ]es8 tban from 14«. to 15^. per ton, th& 
freigbt alone being from lU. to 12«.» wbile tbe price of 
Aberdeen granite, in tbe same Situation, is only from I9s. to> 
21«. and 22«. Maidstone ragstone in tbe rubble State» costs 
about 7«« per ton : it is a limestone» and mucb less durable 
tban tbe wbin. The carriage from tbe dver to tbe road» of 
all tbese» is of course tbe same. flint» again» is so mach 
less durable tban whin, tbat it will not bear tbe expense of 
carriage (wbicb may be taken at from 1«. 0if. to 2«. per 
ton per mile) from any distance» to mi^e it preferable to tbe 
gravel, or paring» in point of cost» fbr the roads near 
London. A double iron raü-road» to suit tbe I^ondon 
Waggons» which some have reconnnended» would cost about 
4>5(Xtf. per müe» and would be fitted for waggons only of 
öne precise wldtb, and for waggons or heavy carts only ; 
wbile» from tbe difficulty of crossing it» it would form 
ratber an obstacle to ligbt curiages. Blocks of Aberdeen 
granite» twelve inches wide and fifleen inches deep» laid in 
tbe way. of tbe wheels (as recommended by others») would 
be nearly as expenstve; andibe eight jointfi;» which would 
be formed between tbe stone and the gravel» by four rows 
of stone» would be found extremely troublesome and incon- 


vcnient. Both these Substitutes for paviqg» therefore> 


fhough equlilly expebsive m paving, hate pecuUar dbad«*' 
vantagee ; and Uiey have Ihitf hesides, which is common to 
them both, that they läake ho proviaion for preventiag Üie 
great wear upon gravelied n>ads» which is caosed by ihe 
hönes* feet, particalariy if (äs is the case in a rail-road) they 
are confined in <me track» 

Attention in the forfning and repaiHng of roads^ wiH m 
All cases do muoh to cömpensate ibr Che inferiority of the 
matertal used fbr Ihat pttfpösey of which the im^rcyvements 
in the geneird State of the hlghwäjrswithtB the last tvrenty 
yeacB aflfords the best proof. To fimn the read apon a good 
foundatbn> and to keep the surfiiee dear df water after it ia 
ibhned, are the two most essentifd poiiits to^afds haVing the 
best roads possible, upon a gtven country> and with given 
äiaterials; For obtainmg' this firit of these dbjects, it Is es- 
sential that the liheibr the töäd be taken so that the foun- 
datioli can be kept dty either by avoiding low grouhd by 
raimg- tlie surface of die road above the level of the ground' 
An eadi side of it, or by drawing off the water by means' of 
side drains« The oäier objecto viz. that' öf Clearing the 
road of water» is best secured by seleeting ä course for the 
road which is not horizontally lerel, so thattbie surface of 
the road may m itslongitudinal secUon, form in some degree 
an inclined plaiie ; änd when this cännot be obtainedy owing 
td the extreme fiatness of the cötintry, an artSScial Inäii- 
nätion may generally bie made. When a road is so formed, 
i^very wheel-track that is made, being in the line of the in- 
diüätion, becomes a channd for carrying off die water, mach 
more efl^uälly than can be dotie by a cvirvature in the crosd 
6ection or rise in the middle'of the road, without the danger; 
or other disadvantages which necessärily attend the round- 
ing a road much in the mid^e. I consider a fall of aboüt 
Dne inch and a half in ten feeti to be a minimum in thIs 


caae> if it is altaiiM41>)e without a great deal of extra eir-* 
peose. It is in the knowledge of the above poInts, and o( 
die application of them in practiee, that what may he called 
the acience of road^making Gonsuit9» as the observations 
apply in every caae. When a road is to be fonued, accurale 
aections of the rises and falls of the ground should always 
be takeui in the same way as is done for a canal, before the 
line 18 deteriniaedy or the levela of the road fixed upon, and 
when the courae and leyela. of the road are laid down, the 
detail of the work ou^t to be particularly expUiined by a 
specification and plan» describing the nmnner in which each 
particiliar length ig to be fonbed and completed. 

The qiiantky of ' materiak necessary to form the road de- 
pends so mach upon the seil and thenatare of the materials 
themselyes, that it is imposnble tolay dotnn any general 
ruies for them. The tbickness ooght tobe such that the 
greatest weight will not aflfect more than the surface of the 
8he^9 and it is ütAk purpose obiefly, that tfaickness is requtr- 
ed» in Order to spread the weight which comes upon a smaH 
part only.of . the road orer a targe portion of the foundation. 
When the^onnd is yery soft^ trees, bavins or bushes, are 
applied .to answer the same purpose» and to carry off the 
water pcevious to the.materials of the road being so Con- 
solidated as to form a solid body« and to be impenrious to 
wat^. ^ Bushes are, however» not advisc^ be used, un- 
less they are so low as always to becompletely mpist. When 
they are dry and excluded from the air they decay in a very 
few years, and pfodnce a sinking in place of preserving the 
road ;.a thickness of chalk is usefiil for the same purpose in 
cases wbere bushes are improper, the chalk mixing with the 
gravel.or stonesbecomes coi^creted, and presents a larger 
surface to the pressure. If the material for making the 
roads i^rgravel, the common way is to lay it as ii comes from 


thepit, exoepttng tbe upper fooly or 18 inches or so,' wblcfi ] 
isscreened; bui if whin or other stene is to be üsed, tbe 
size of tbe pieces ioto which il is broken tbould dccrease aa 
ve approadi tbe surfaoey tbe superficial ooating not exceed- 
iag a cube from 1 incb to 1| incb. If tbe foundation fs 
bad, breaking tbe bottom stone into gmall pieces is expeu- 
8iv^ and injurious» upon tbe prindple I bave above de- ' 
scrSied» aad ako for tbe ftaine retaon tbat an ärcb formed 
of wbole brickfi or of deep stones is to be pntfenred to' oiie 
of tbe same materials broken into smaller pieces^ for in 
8ome counties tbe materials will admit of tbe foundation of ] 
tbe road being considered a« of die natura of a flat arcb, as ; 
well as of being sup'ported by tbe strata directly under it : 
but tbe error in layiog tbe stone in large pieces upon tbe 
surface is more common and more iiijurioüs. In aß cases» 
wbetber tbe material is gravel or.bard stone, tbe interstices < 
between tbe pieces sbpuld be fiiled up soHd widi sHiiäller 
pieces» and tbe finisbing made by a tfaiu coVeriiig of verjr 
sfnall/piecesi or road*sand or mbbisb, for tbose intersticcSs 
must be fiiled lU) before tbe road becomes sdid, eidier in tbb 
way or by a portion of tbe materials of tbe road being ground 
d<^n, wbich last mode occasions a waste of tbe raaterial, and 
ke^s tbe roadunnecessärily beavy and loose« This dbservatton 
«pplies to tbe repairing as well as tbe original makingof 
roads, and tbe eSbct of tbis coveriogi orasit fi) calledin 
JriM, lC^\ ^ tbe cpuntry, älmding tbe loose stones, is so evident, tbat 
v.^" I bave often wondered to see so littleattention.paid toit* 
If tbe material is soft, as some lime-atooe^ this is less ne^ 
cessary, and tbe quantity ougbtneverto be moretban is 
just sufficient for tbe purpose 1 bave described. In die 
original making or effectually repairing of a road, it js, I 
tbink, best tbat tbe wbole of tbe proposed tbicknoss be laid 
on at once, for tbe sake of tbe niad as well as cf Ae tniK 


vdkr; llie oMteriab of tbe road tboi lörm a mmre toKcl 
conipflct nnmr dun wlmlhey vis Ud intiiui stntta» atdi^ 
ferent taiies» for thenme reatmi that « deep aich of mifiinD 
Biateriakbprefenbletoaniniiberofieptfatenq^ Thongh 
I State that an indinatioa in the longitndinal aection of the 
road is alwaja derirable fi>r tbe poipose of deariog jt of 
water, lam notof tlteopmioBof tlioaeiHioreooiniBeDdthe 
road to be made and k^ flal or level in its gross section. 
Tbe Tarie^ of opinions and piactice i^n this point are 
veiygreat; botb extremes ifipeartome tobe bad* Aroad 
mncb roonded is dangeroqs, perticolari j if tbe croas sectifm 
iq;iproacbes towards tbe segment of a cirde» tbe slope ip 
tbe case not being uniform, bot increasiog rapidljr irom tbe 
natmre of tbe cmrve, as we depart firom tbe middle or yer- 
tical line. The over ronnding of roads is also injorioos to 
tbem, fay eitber eonfining tbe beavy carriages to one track 
in tba erown of tbe road, or if tbey go upon tbe «des, by 
tbe gieat wear^ tbef prodae^ frora tbdr.coiistant tepdencjr 
to move down tbe indined plane, owing to tbe ai^le whjs^ 
the smface of the road and the line of gravitj of the Ip^d 
form witl^ each other, and as this tendenc^ is perpendicalar 
to Ae liae of draught, the laboor of the borse and tbe 
isear of ,the canriage wheels, are both much increased 
by it. ... 

It is not altogetber forei^ to the subject to notice her«, 
the error . of fornupg tbe mclipation of the road*waj> upon 
bridges, in the direption of their length, or across the 
rif er, fro^ a section of a cunre for the whole lepgtb, rather 
than froqi two lines joined together by. a curve, as I have 
i^coaimeiaded for .the crois section of a i^oad« It is to this 
cause thüt the rery beavy pull is owiog^ which must have 
been not^ced in just getting upon a bridge, which decreases 
as weadv ance towards the middle of the bridgOy and which 


Woutd not häve been sö mach feit, had it h6eh spread regu- 
larly over the whole lengtti (see Nö. 5» in the plan.) 

The disadvantages of a flat road Again äre, that even if it 
as suppoted to continue 8o» it is bad in principle, by doing 
away the tendency which a road ought to have, in ev^ry 
direction, to dear itself of water; but as the greatest weör 
will always be in the middle of the road^ a level or flat roäd 
will very aoon be concave ; the niiddle öf the road then be* 
Cornea the watercourse» and the ' conseqaence, if the road 
18 upon level ground, h, that the water and mud lie 
upon ity and injure the fdundation and materials; dr» if 
otherwise» that the stones or materials of the roäd are 
waahed bare, and liable to be loosened and tKrown up by 
the wheek Coming into contäct with their exposed angolar 
fiurfaces« Many of the ifoads in the country afford examples 
of this, particukrly after heavy rainsi and if the country is 
at all hilly. 

The best form for a road, in otder to avoid those evils, is,-^ 
in my opinioil» to form it/ and to keep it with just a suflb> 
cient i*i8e towards the middle, to indine the water towards 
the sides ; and in place of making Üie whöle width the see«* 
tioii of on^ curve» to form it by tWo straight lineis, forrni^ 
indined planes, ahd joided by acurve towards the middle 
I have prepared a Sektion of a road m the manner I hare 
described (No. 4.) and as dii^linies, exdeptingat thecentre, 
are straight, the section may be made to suit almost äiiy 
greater or less width« by merdy extendbg them.' The 
section is taken nearly from a part of a road made under my 
direction in the country« The dotted line drawn upon it 
shows the form I alluded to when speaking of the circular 
road that ought to be avoided. I h{ive seen ridges formed 
in what I thought well formed land, much after ithat I 
i^ould recommend fpr the form of a road. The object of 


forming the land into ridge«» raised a litüe in the middlei ig 
the same aa that of rabing the middle of a road to prevent 
the water from settling upon it» and what is sufficient for the 
ploughed land is certainly enough for a road. If the road 
is of good stone, four to five inches rise in ten feet is sufB- 
cient» gravelt and other inferior materia], will allow a little 
more. In this section it may be worth while to notice the 
Situation of the hedge and ditch, or rill on each side of the 
road, a more common^ bat I think a more dangerous and 
worse way, is to form the ditch close to the road^ and to 
plant the quick upon a räised bank beyond it. I have 
dotted this mode also upon the section. The advantage of 
having the hedge next the road, consists in its greater safety 
to the traveller, particularly if a ditch of any considerable 
depth is necessary» and in the hedge being supported in its 
grqwth from the ground under the road, without drawing 
upon the farmer*s side of the ditch $ and it is I believe, this 
^ast adyantage, which has led the aüthor of an article in 
the Edinburgh Farmer's Magazine, with whom I am ac* 
quaintcd, to make nearly the same observations. In a length 
of road, made eight or ten years since. over a marsb^ 
partly a bog, considcirably under high .water, where» from 
the Icvel of the ground, and of the drainage, the ditches 
were obliged to be deep and wide,ünd therefore dangerous ; 
I ordered some cuttings of willow to be stuck into the road- 
side of the ditch. In about two years they formed a blind 
to the ditch, and are now so thick and streng as to l)e a 
complete security from all danger. I may here take the 
liberty to say» that nothing is more injurious. to roads than 
the permitting high hedges and.plantations near them, their 
eflfect in keeping the rain suspended and dripping upon (he 
road longer than otherwise it would, and in preventing the 
air and sun from drying the roads, is most destructive and 

* 177 

very g^neral : dnd as the comtnissioners ot principal men of 
' the district are often the greatest offenders in this respecti 

^ the evil is one in which both the enactments and the appli- 

cation of them require the strictest attention and impaftiality. 
After a road is prbperly made, the comfort of the traveller 
and the principle of economj on the part of the roadtnisty 
both demand that it be not allowed to get rouch out of 
repair ; the adage of <^ a stitöh in titne,'* applies particularly 
to the repeiring of roadt, and though not universally prao 
tised, Ib so well known, that it is, I presüme, unnecessary 
to State reasons» for what no one acquainted with the subject 
at all doubts« The best season for repairing roäds is» t 
think» the spring or yery early in the summer, when tfae 
weather is likely neither to be very wet nor dry, for both of 
these extremes prevent the materiab from consölidating, 
and therefore cause a waste of them» and at the same time, 
either a heavy or a dusty road ; but if done at the time t 
have recommended, the roads are lelt in good State for the 
Summer, and become Consolidated and hard to resist the 
work of the^ensuing winter. 

When I^remarked the great improvement in many of the 

highways during the last twenty years, Tby no means meant 

to say that they äre not still capable of much greater, or 

that many of them have not been much neglected. In many 

districts this is notoriously the case, and when the imaterials 

arethebesty the roads are frequently the worst« There is 

no road roiiind London upön which there is more heavy 

country , trafficj thanthe first stage of the great Essex or 

Mile End road; and owing to the well directed attention of 

the chairman of the commissioners/and of their surveyor» 

there are f<$w better roads öny where, excepting in very wet 

heavy weather. Indeed I do not think it possible to do 

much, if any thing^ in unproving tbe superintendance and 

M ' 


repairof thatroad, with the material at present in oae; 
for the nature of which, as well as fbr the exdusion of air 
and sun by buildings, proper allowance ought to be made 
in judging of the State of the roads near Londoiij dad when 
this is dohe, and the great wear considered, we may find that 
in very many cases» there is but little cause to find fault, 
and much room for commendation. l'he tralBc u^ioa tirt 
Mile End road is however too much for a gravelled road^ 
and the expense for repair for the first three miles is ednae» 
quently very great. The same remarks as to conduct aild 
attention, are roerited by the commissioners of other dis- 
tricts, and their gratuitous Services entitle them to the 
thanks of the public ; while in some parts of the kingdöifa^ 
including Scotland, where the materiai is the very best^ tbe 
roads are oflen in the worst condition, and the most uft- 
pleasant to travel upon. The stone is put in lai^e pi^ces 
upon the road, without any covering er mixture df smalier 
material, and is left to take the chance of being broke and 
formed into a solid^ or of tunbling loose upon the road; 
When a track is once formed in this stone-heap, it i$ ntk to 
be expected that the horses will be easily made to move .t)ut 
of it ; and unless the thoroughfare is considerabl6^ the i'oad 
in use consists sometimes for a long period^ of the twö deep 
wheeltracks, which are always filled with water during ütfe 
winter, and of the horse's path between thäm^ the ötfadr 
parts being covered with a body of looi^ stonea, and rev^ 
dered absolutely useless. These observatiofis apply to. aeme 
lengths of the most frequented highways^ but are more pars» 
ticularly applicable to the cross roads add thcf pari^ roäAi» 
I had the opportunity of seeing the roads in tfae Weit 
Highlands last autumn ; they are fbrmed with ju^iement^ 
and kept in good repair« 
When the h%hway8 in a county are under tlie iioianiige& 


meät df ttiäkebhy ii h tih^mh td diviae üieiü, imä tö iikii^ 
ä fkHiciä&t leiigih tö ehe' (^o^täes i^lio livö iiöär it, "Ärlthoüt 
employihg any pet'son in the 6apacity of a fitir^eydh ^^ed 
thid is the caäe^ the State 6f repair depenck miiöh ü|)6ti iitö* 
oiii^ervaiiön attd attettiicni of the trusiee ; and the diätr^ö Mi 
tbe iMate of Üue f oad often utarkd oai the thiHg^ ot isäpef- 
intendance. A relative of mffie has gheü üp a gocffl dö'd 
öt hur tihi^ and attentfoii tp a part of the road^ in SÜiriin^- 
shife, 6f which he In oneöf the trusiees: no p^ofeädotidf 
män.ööäh!, pei-hap«, do the Üu^inessbettef; atid th6 etflfä^ 
6f tbis attention is rtry viisible. Instances ot th& saäre kindl 
äf^ frequ^nt, bttt it is not to be expeüted ttiät tfö^öfetf 
genersdly dan both undeiistand^ and have dcf grtai a ieUA 
fbfr i^erVing the public, as that the detail of the repäfii of 
föadsy if impoi^ed upon thäm» will hä idi^ays e±6cut6d wilii 
thö attention they re^üii'e. 

The case of parish roads^ k still wörse, whäfe Ute inlia- 

bltants äi-Oy #ithoii£ much i'egard to äieir Habits of life, 

dbligäd iä their turiiä tö särve the annöal öflice of surfeyöir 

öt the highways. If duct persons meaxi to signaiize (hem- 

selves during their beiiigin office, the first step is often £o ün^o 

^bat their ptedeöedsor has dohe> or has not perfected ; an j 

the löite of s^lf and of frieädä det^hnines th«m to mäke 

äür^ while they have it ih thär power, that tome favoufed 

röadd or lanes are put into proper Order. If the surveyof is, 

on the contrary, an unwilling otScer, or if the attention to 

bis own affiiirs prevents bim giving bis tiine iö the diities ot 

the öffice, he avoids the fine by accepting the chargOy pays 

the bills and.wages without much khowledge of their nature 

oü* accuracy^ and one of the labourers becomes, in fact» the 

road-surveyor ; but in every case of annuäl nominations 

there is this evil, that so soön as the surveyor bas, by a 

year's apprenticediip» begun to knoW something 6t the 

M 2 


nature4>f the bunneiSt his place it fiUed by another, who 
oomes in for the same üme to take lessons at the expense of 
the parish. Thus, while manj simple trades require, by 
law^ an.apprenticeship of seven years, before the person ift 
thought qualified to practise with his own capital» the road- 
surveyor is supposed fit, the very hoar he is named, for aa 
Office which requires at least as mach understanding and 
experience as the average of trades, and in which he has. 
.the capital of all the parish to speculate with. For these 
reasons» I have always been convinced of the propriety of 
an intelligent accountable officer in each district» but I do, 
not see to whom he can be responsible with so great pro-, 
priety, or in other words, in whom the chief cgntrol can be. 
so well vested, as in the gentlemen who live in the comiQr» 
who are almost daily witnesses of whatis doing, and. are 
chiefly interesied in keeping down the expenses, at the same 
time having their roads in good repair, 

Whether a board of roads, appointed by parliament, meet- 
ing once every year, and forming a report of the expense and 
State of the roads in each county» to be presented to parlia* 
menty with such observations as present themselves^ as to im- 
provements, or otherwise« taken from general surveyg made 
by persons apppintedby them, would be useful, by exciting a. 
spirit of emulation and attention onthe part of the different 
trusts, every member of tfais honourable Committee is as. 
able,, and perhaps more able, togivea disinterested judg- 
ment than I am ; for I conclude^ that if snrveys aiS9 to be 
made^ engineers will think they have some chance of being. 
selected as the most proper persons to be eroploy^d on the ^ 
occasion, under the board. The State of the roads cpntinue 
to improve throughout the kingdom. Every friend to his 
country will be pleased, if the march of this improvement 
can be accelerated by a moderate reforuti, and carried into 


remote oorners and parishes» where it appears most' to be 
wanted ; but I much question the propriety of such a revo- 
luliön as would lessen the interest, which« in tbeir present 
Situation» the commissioners ought to feel in the repair of 
their röads^ and the consequence which the appdintment 
tends to givethem. 

If couqtry road-snrveyors are appointed throughout the 
kingdom, the. nomination might be with the commissioners 
of the county, and if friendship or local interest is supposed 
to operate too fär, the nomination, or the ezamination pre- 
vious to electioo» or the veto after it, might be with the 
central or other board, the members of which might be sup- 
posed not to be connected with the individual» in the same 
way as pQots and the masters of men of war are examined by 
the eider brethren of the Trinity House* And sub-sunreyon 
or sunreyors of parishes, might in the JBame . manner be ap- 
pointed» or undergo an examination by the county eommis- 
sioners and county sunreyor» to qualify them to be elected ; 
for it is to belamented, that in cases where parishes have» 
from the reasons I have mentioned» made the office of road- 
surveyors permanent, with a salary : the. election being 
populär, has fallen, not upon the candidate who was really 
the best qualified, but probably upon some honestdecayed 
tradesman, who, having . peoved himself unable to manage 
his ownbusiness, which he ought to haye known the best» 
has thereby, andby his long residence, qualified himself for 
managing a public business, of which he probably knows 
Bothing, but whether he does, or does not, rarely enters 
into the consideration of the majority of the vöters. 

IN what manner do you think the extra toll for o^er- 
weight ought to be r^ulated ; whether by the weight, or 
by the number of horses used, without regard to the weight ^ 
•—I think by the ^weight most certainly ; unless the dbgect is 

tf> ^jfcguf ggf ib^ bteß^ |0f mnal) }iw«8, wd eaGq»r%ge A« 
af^<;l9a||mg .^d ^tr^u^ijpg, of liprfp? of ajl gi^e^. Th# 

fl^ea^yf e at «}1 ßf % }pjury dope ^p tfrß tQ^d^ ; fqr » )p»d 

?C ÖfFPß ^9P*8 ^'f^Tfo l>y PPÄ J*PWi W^rpe the road m 

oiuch, to say the least of it, as if two hor^e» n&^ß PSed* 
][t J8 {}f^f out of p^ape ^ men^ipn ^bi^ extrppae c^isproppition 
bffvegR tJfg pPBalti€jP fpr pvjerwpfgbt, ftftfl 0ie ipjuries wWch 
Ö?py ftrg pegf^ ^p cofppei^s^l:p fpr, pr Uk ppeyppt ; patticu- 
Iwff ¥hf^ !*|f oyer-}pa4ipg i^ the eflfec^ pf iguorancg» 
Ifh^c)) jf ^fpojst ^l^ays tbp pa«P* W^ep the toll« are iQ the 
li^ldf of fj:u$fe^9> ^he penalty i^ ^^mo^i alT^ay$ reduced ; a 
p)rpf)f ^}it fh|||f (1x04 hy \^w h exorbit^t ; but wben the 
(fl}^ SFS fei»e4, ,afi4 tba »rp^tpe« dp mi rp^grve tbp po^e? 
Sf Ffff WI^AS ^^ penf^Hy» l^^e popr icQjrmaa has lesa chance 

«— «•*-* »-«r-k«^ •**-.,> 

Mr. «Tarne« pean, called io ; and E^apiiiie^. 

lAfHAT i^ypur pcofesfion ?f-^I ap a lapd agent and civil 
l^gift^^ ß^d wo Qccaüoaally emp)pyed to solicit bills in 
p^cliani^pt tß ^xl 9geat. 

Tyi^pedp ypu ip^i^e frr-I resi4e in London abputhalf the 
jffi^f Wßi ^e p^h^ bidf in Deyonghire* 

4ff ap epgipeer» bave ypu faad the means of bpcoming 
acquain^li w^k the roads of the kingdom )--About twenty 
years sincp» I had the appointment of surveyer to the trus- 
tees of the turnpike roads from Oxford to Henley upon 
Thame«» and frpm Dorchesteif to Abingdon, in Berkshire: 
ßince then I have been employed about several roads in 
Devopsbire and Gornwally and, latterly, in surveying $nd 


reportbgon an extenehe distiidt of the roads in Somerset- 

^ From the observations which jou have made in this em- 
plojrment» are you ahle to give the Committee any Infor- 
mation as to the best mode of improving the roads of the 
kingdom generally ? — ^The first and most obvious improve- 
ment is to shorten distances ; bat even that must be governed 
by cireumstances often of a local nature ; a sound founda- 
(ion, and the contiguity of good stone or gravel to a road^ 
should not be overlooked in choosing a new line^ or depart- 
Ing from an old one. In forming a new line in a level 
country, the transverse section should approach as near as 
possible to the form of the accompanying sketchNo. 1, and 
in a hilly country to that of No. 2 ; in the former, the water 
from one half the road would be carried jnto a ditch on the 
field-side, and that of the ' other half into a ditch between 
Ihe fbotpath and hedge-bank. When it is necessary to fprni 
a road on Üie side of a hill, the ditch should be on the 
higher side of the road, where it will receive the water 
falling from the high ground^ and so keep the foundation of 
the road dry« I have figured the breadths of a good ave- 
rage turnpike road on sketch No. 1» but the breadth will 
frequently depend upon cireumstances of a Ipcal nature. 
Near to great townSy it would be highly advantageous if the 
centre of the road, for about twelve feet in width, were to 
be paved with hard well-squared stones, nine inches deep» 
and the sides made with hard rubble stones or gravel,. I 

, need scarcely mention^ that in applying the materials to a 
new line of road, the stones should be broken into pieces of 
an uniform size, as near as may be ; that the larger should be 
laid of nearly an equal depth over the whole surface of the 
road, and the smaller, mixed with grayel, should be placed 
upon them. The repairing of roads should be conducted 
in the same manner as far as it is practicable ; but, after all» 


tbe only sore way of getting good roads is, for the trustees 
io emplöy men of education and science as their surveyon. 
In a few instapces^ where this has been done, the best^ 
consequenc^ have resulfed, and in no case is it moi^e 
^onspicuouß than in the neighbourbood of Bristol» where 
Mr. M^Adam is the.surveyor. 

Will not a consequent impediment arise to tbe employ» 
iQent of men of eduqation and of superior abilitj as sur- 
yeyors, from ihe smailness of the funds upon small trusts or 
districts ? — For that reason, I woul4 recommend the con- 
solidation of the several trusts» in eaqh coun^y, in,to one 
genera] trust, under the authority of one general a^t of 
parliamenty leaviog the adoption, however, of the. acta to 
the discretion of the several trusts respectiyely in each 
pounty, making it compulsory only on tbe minorityi at tb^ 
Expiration of a time to be limited, wben a majority in 
amount of toll shall call for its adoption, and after insertion 
in theprovinci^ papers and JLondon Gazette. 

Sqpposing parliai^ent to adopt ypur Suggestion as to tb^ 
passing of such an act, and suppoMng tbat afterwards the 
trusts pf pone of the counties sl^ould adopt it as f^ general 
trust« would tber^ be any objectipn to tbe act being so 
framed ^ to ^drnit of adoption by such of the ttusts as 
inight prefer it to incurring tbe expense of a renewal of 
their then looal dpts ?-i— I do npt thipk tbere would be any 
well founded objection to an act made capable of being so 
applied ; aqd I am of opinion, that tbo making it optional 
ion trustees to adopt it of not, would render the measure es^« 
tremely populär, and in t}^e epd be highly beneficial to tb^ 

. Haye you nof; lat^lyprepared a billfor the trustees of an 
extensive trust in Somersetsfaire, including nearly all 
the iraproyements which yöu would recommend to be intro- 
duced into a general turppike act ?r--I haye prepared suph A 


1»11 ; and tt was intended that the same shoald have been 
braught before parHäment in thepreflent sesBion, büt the 
Clerk 10 the trustees having omitted to'put the notice required 
hj the standmg Orders of parliament upon the sessions- 
houBß door, at the Michaelmas sessions, the trustees redolved 
to defer presenting their petition until the next Session. 

In what respect döes the bill which you have prepared 
difer from the generality of local turnpike acts ? — Mäny of 
thedauses of the bill arenot so remarkable for originality, 
as thelr combination is calculäted to produce extensive be- 
nefit to the country, by conferring larger powers than have 
heretoibre been given to any one body of trustees ; among 
öthetBf it empovrers the trustees to appoint committees, and 
make bye-laws ; it binds them to provide ä fund for buying 
i^p Otttstanding securities, and to pay off the further sums 
proposed to be raised under the new act, within the term of 
the act ; the tolls on wheel'Carriages are made referrible to 
thebreadth of the fellies, and description of wheel, and to 
the weight drawn, rather than to the number of horses, 
drawing» and are founded on a Statement which I had the 
bönourof delivering to a Coramittee of the House of Com- 
mons in 1809. The Standing orders of parliament require 
that on or before the SOth öf September next» preceding 
any application to pa)rliament for any Tumpike Act, a plan 
&c. of the roads proposed to be made or altered, shall be 
deposited with the clerk of the peace. ' It often happens, 
tbat in the Committee alterations are made in the proposed 
line, when the plan deposited becomes mere wasie paper ; 
üie seventy sixth clause of tbis bill provides for the depo- 
siting of a plan» &e* last determined upon, with the derk 
of the peace, signed by the Speaker, and being an authentic 
doeument can be referred to with safety« The bill also prp- 
ytdes for the making of commodious footpaths by the sides 
of 1^ rQads« And as the paving, ~ deansing, lighting. 


watchipg» &c. of tfae liberty or bosough of t^ * * « is 
placed in tbe truslees of the roads, the troistees ave em- 
powered to rate^ the iqhabitants, and ar« also empowered to 
ligbt ibe streetSy &c. with gas» and to allow gas to be taken 
frpm tbeiF mains for tbe ligbting of private dwellings, nkanu- 
fectoriesy &C* ; so tbat in all probabilitj the latter indulgenoe 
may pay the greater part, if not the «(^ole, pf the oxpense 
•f Ijghting the public lamps« TJie ninety-tl^ird daose em« 
ppW^in the tnistees to pave, light and watch any town, vil« 
läge pr place tbrough which the roads pass, upon application 
of tWQrthirds of t)ie iahabitantSy and is in myview extremely 

Jf^vß yott APy fuctber suggestions to olbr to the Com- 
inittefi tbat would tend to the improvenient of the roads, ot 
ik^ )^vs ^lating to then^ ?•— Upon the subjept of tumpike 
ro^dfli, apd pf whef Ircarriages generally» I am of opii^ioii 
())at such a spirjt of iaiprpvement bas gone fbrth ps, whh 
t^e afi^is^npe of judipjous legislative enactments, will in a 
fi^W J^^ csary hotb to a State of very great perfeetion 9 
l)m l ptmnot dose these remarks without observing pn the 
injurious effect which the large fees paid to the higher 
<lQper8 of both houses of parliament has upon the growing 
itapeovements of the coui^try, by preventing a recurrence to 
pad^ament to remov-e obstacles which tfae prejudice of some 
will not» and the incapacity of others caqnof permit. The perl- 
odtcf^l expensesof renewi^g turnpike acts is roaliy enormous, 
when it is considered that between the fees of parliament 
on t)ie one band, and a two month's residence in London of 
tbe country solicitor> tp manage the business, bes|des ä par- 
liamentary agent in |own to assist him, four or üye hundred 
pounds ore spon swallpwed up; but. I alsp feel it idght to 
suggest, that if parliament would allow afidavits to be made 
hefore two magistr^tes in the county, of |he notices directed 
l)y the 8ta^4ing Orders of parliament, having been duly 


given, lof plan» «td «if Imoks of refentoM being loteed 
li^jlli th^ c]prk P^ tbß pßaqe, and of tbe names ef th^ per- 
^pn$ asfspntipg 1^9 dia^ßnting froniy or being peuter in respect 
pf ^y prQpo9ßd nisw road, tbe solicitpr xieed not reo^ain in 
town more thap ^br^e dajrs, apd tbe expenses^ except ia 
fM^f^n pf pppQsitJoi), need not exceed 000/. 

WQMld yQUy 94 a p^liamentary agent» undertak« to pre» 
^ßtfi apd cpiidncl an ordmary road bill througfa parliamim|: 
fo|: 20P^., po indude all espenses» wbe;e tbere is no oppo? 
aiMon FtttI 9^o^ld undßPtakß wy number at diat ^iWi pror 
vi^ed |;he prQ^f^ before inentipa^d were admitted to be made 
Ikj ^ffidiivit in tbe cpunty» in ]ike nianner as tbe prpofs ari 
»piK giyeü Ip ^BLfiilitfitß tbe pas^ing of inclosure btlls. 

-* - 9 9 0h. ^ w-m 

Jgvis^ &dipMm, im-, 

Thomas Telford, ^s<]uire^ called in ; and Examined« 

YQU are, | helieve» acivi} engineeri 

Y©», I am. 

The roads wblcb have been formed by directiön of ^e 
{^rliamentary Gommissionerjs fbr tbe Hoijbead road, and 
vmder youE management, having been descnbed to tbif 
(üj^pimittee as l^eing very perfect, will you bave tbe good« 
Ts^^m tQ 9tate your opinion as to thp present condit;ion of tbe 
di^irenl turppike roads of tbe k^ngdonp, apd wbat impcoire* 
mepta you vould reeemmend in tbeir direction and manage- 
ipent« In tbe first place, State to tbe Committee in what 
jpespept yptt consider tbe roads of tbe kingdom at prß8en|: 
tia bß defeplive» eithec in their fonnation or mänagemeht drrrr 

Witb rega?d to the roads in England and Wales» tbef 
are in generid very defective, K:|oth as to tbeir direcfion and 
juipliiialiQ9Si t(}ey i^ce frequent]y carried ovev bills, wbicb 


tnight be ftvoided by pflssh^^ong tbeadjacent vaHeys; at 
preseut tbe indinations are inconveniently steep, and long 
continued. I might instance tnany principal lines, overwbicb, 
I have had frequent occasion to travel : I sball select the great 
road £rom Holyhead, througb Nortb Wales to Shrewsbury ; 
and from thence by Birmingbam and Coventry to London. 
On the Wekb portion of it, tbose parts whicb havebeen im« 
proved under tbe direction of the Parliaimentary Commis* 
rioners for the Hoiyhead road» the inclinationd were formerly 
(in many instances) «s tnucb as one in six> seven, eight^^ 
sine» and ten» tbe width at tbe same time frequently not ex- 
ceeding twelve feet, witbout protection on tbe lower side» 
and tbe roadway itself of improper constrüction. The im- 
provements whicb have lately been made in North Wales, 
I beg leave to submit as modeis för roads througb hiUy 
countriesy although tbese improvements have been made 
througb tbe most difficult and precipitous districts of that 
CQuntry, the longitudinal inclinations are in general less 
than one in thirty ; in one instance, for a considerable dis- 
tance, there was no avoidii^ one in twenty-tv^o^ and in 
anotber» for about two hundred yards, one ia seventeen; 
but in tbese two cases, the surface of tbe roadway being 
made peculiarly smooth and .bacd, no inconvenience is ex- 
perienced by wheeled carriages. On flat ground» the 
breadth of the roadway is tbirty-two feet, wb^re there is 
side cutting not exceeding three feet» tbe breadth is twenty« 
eight, and along any steep ground and precqpic^, it is 
twenty-twoy all clear within the fences; the sides are pro- 
tected by stone walls» breast and retaining walls and para« 
pets; great pains have been bestowed on the' cross drains^ 
also the drainmg the ground, and likewise in constructing 
firm and substantial foundations for the metslled part of the 
roadway. From Shrewsbury. upwards, the road atpresent is 
encumbered with many hills, all of which mg\Lt be avoided. 


or mach impro^ed. Tliere ig a rery long one between 
Shrewsbury and Heygate, several between that point and 
Shifinaly two between Shiffnal and Wolverhamptorl, one 
between Wolverhampton and Birmingham, viz. at Wednes- 
bury, Are. Maiden Hill, between Birmingham and Coventry ; 
. Braunston Hill, between Dunchurch and Daventry; a con» 
tinued succession of hüls between Daventry and Toweester; 
afterwards the wellknown Brickhill and Hocklifie hil^ 
besides the very circuitous and imperfect road between 
South Mims and Bamet. 

Another instance I woüld beg leave to mention to the 
Committee, is the road between the töwns of Shrewsbury 
and Worcester, on the way to Bath, which consists öf nearly 
a succession of very high and inconveniently steep hüls, 
although very easy inclinations mtght be jobtained by passing 
along the side of the river Sevem. 

I have mentioned these two instances as examples of the 
present imperfections of main roads, and it is quite evident 
they might - all be readily avoided by lines of new road, 
easily to be accomplished. These, I presume, the Com* 
mittee will admit are sufficient to show the present State of 
manyother roads in the kingdom, they not having been 
selected as more particularly defective than others. 

The shape, or cross sections and drainage of the roads, 
are quite as defective as the general direction and inclina- 
tions ; there has been no /attention paid to constructing a 
good and solid foundation for the roadway $ the materials» 
whether of gravel or stones, have seldom been sufSciently 
sdected and arrangcd; and they Ite so promiscuously upon 
the road as to render it inconvenient to travel upon, and 
promote its speedy destructibn. Hie shape of the road, or 
cross section of the surface» is frequently hollow in the 
middle; the sides encumbered with great banks of mud, 
which hfive accumulated sometimes to- the height of six, 


HHi^ii ahd efght feet ; thäse pr^vent the iräiör froin MMg 
into ihe äide-draind ; tfaey Also thrbW ä cöDdidel*Abie ikhädf 
ü^bn the rüäd it$elf, atid are gross and unpardönable nüi- 
sanc^s. Tfae materials, instead of b&jng cleähsed ö£ ihb 
mud äiid soil with Which they are mixed in tlieir nativä äiate, 
are laid promi&cüously upon the road ; this, in the flri^t in^ 
BtBüte, creates an unnecessary expende of carriage tö ihd 
rbad^ and äfterwärds nearly as muth in teüioving it, b^sideä 
inconvenieiice and obstruction to travelling ; thjs inäteriali^ 
should therefore be cleansed on the spot tvher^ tUey ftre 
prtfcüredy .from eveiy particle of earth, by screeriin^, 6t if 
necessary, even by washing; some additional dxpehse* 
diight in the first instance be incurred by th^e dperätiohö, 
but it firould bis found by much the most ecdnefmicäl anj 
ädvkhtageoud mode in the end. In all cases» inäte,irials iti 
their native State are composed of particles ahd piebes bf 
different sizes, it is most important that those Shoüla be 
iseparät^d, and that the largest size should bb f edüced to^ 
not khore ihän sik Ör öight ounces in weight, and laid in ttiä 
bbttoin ^ärt of the rokd ; thöse that ar6 under that weiglit 
er si^e may b^ laid on the top or surface of ihh röäd ; Uie 
surface it6elf should he tnade with a very gentle cüfvö in lü 
cross section, just sufficient to permit the water to ^dsä ftorä 
tfa6 centfe towafds the sides of the road» thö detlivity hiay 
iücrease towards the sides, and the general dection föhn ä 
Vary flat ellipSiSy i»o that the side, attheiimey Should (upbh 
a foad of aboüt thirty feet in width) be nine inches bdöf^ 
the surface in the middle. Connected with thä eross ^ectiod 
Site the side drains which are to receire the water, käA 
n^hich drainS^ in every instance, I particularly r^co'mfneiid 
to be ön the field-side of the fence, with aperturbä ih ttiat 
fbnce for the water to pass from the sides of the föad int6 
The fehbes themselires on each side form a trery läateriiS 



and importaiil sübjeci^ with regard to the perfectton bf redds ; 
tbej should in no instance be more thah five feet in hetght 
above the centre of the road» and all trees which aUmd 
within twenty yards from thfs centre of it augbt to be fe- 
moved; I am sure that twentj peir cent. of ifae etpense öf 
improving and repäiring roads is incurred bj the improper 
State of the fences and trees along the sides of it> oü the 
sunny side more particularly ; thtii raust be erident to any 
person who will notice the State öf a road which is kntush 
shaded by high fences and trees, compared to the other pdttft 
of the road whtch are ezposed to the sun and air; My öb- 
servations^ trith rfegard to fences and trees^ apply Whten thä 
road is on tbe sarae lerel as the adjacent fields ; bat in inanjr 
cases^ on the most freqnented roads of Englandi mdre stüff 
has been remoTisd froi» time to time than wds pnt on ; thä 
sar&ce of the road is consequently sank into. a trbü^ or 
Channel from three to six feet below the 8ürfao6 öf .th^ 
fields on each side ; here all attempts at drainag^^ dr tt^h 
common repairs» seem to be quite 0ut of the question ; änd 
by much the most judioious and eebnomical mode Will hä t6 
remove the whde road into the field which is on the süisny 
side of it. In ca^s whcre a road h made upon grotmd wherä 
there are many Springs, it is absolntely necessary tb niake i 
number of ander and cfoss drains to collect the träter äxid 
conduct it into the aforesaid side-drains» which I have ^eebäi- 
mended to be made on the field side of the fenceö. 

In constructing the bottom part of a road, (which woald» 
of course, be made of an elliptical form) if it is upon clay, 
or other elastic substance, which would retain water, I 
would recommend to cover the whole bottom of the road 
with vegetable soil, in cases where the natural shape of the 
ground admits ; I would not remove the original surface, aüd 
where there are ineqoalities I wonld fill them up with V^ge- 


table soll» so as to cut off all contiexioti wiih day. Whefe 
gravel is the material to complete the road with, I havef 
already mentioned» that it ougfat to be cooipletely cleansed 
•f every partide of day or earthy substance» and its diffisrent 
sizes ought to be selected and arranged by means of riddlmg 
or waflhing; in the use of tberiddle» the partides of earth 
or day adhere so müch to the stones that it frequently re- 
quires to be exposed to the sun, air, andfrost» forseveral 
months» and then riddled over agäin« In this gravel, the 
stonea. are of diffisrent aizes and different shapes ; all those 
that are round ought to be broken with a small hammer, and 
in mentioning hammeca, I beg leave to draw the attention^ 
of the Committee to their weigfat, shape anfd knanner pf 
using» whiqh 18 of mudi more importance than any one can 
conceive who has not had much experience in road-making ; 
the di£ferenqe in managing this Operation being not less than 
ten per cent. and is, :beside6y of equal importance towards 
the perfection of the road ; the size and weight of the ham- 
mer I would apf^rtion to the -size' and weight öf the stones, 
and ÜißMxm&i shoiüd be tn^oken upon the heap, not on the 
ground; it nnist be evident that tising round stönes will be 
the means of deranging the position of those near them, 
and of grinding them to pieces. 

Are yon of opinion that the gravel which is found in the 
pits in the ne^hbourhood of London is calculated for making 
roads capafa^eof beariog the heavy weights which the great 
traffic round London oiccasions to be used upon them ?^ — 
I am of opinion that the' materials in the whole valley or 
piain ro^nd London being entirely silecious» or flints, and 
easily ground to dust, are viery improper. This must be 
evident to every person whö travels liear London in any 

Are you of opinion that it would be advisable or practicable 


i6 procttre from anj pftrticular part of the country, either 
by canaly or by river conveyance, betier materials, so as ta 
form perfect roads» without the necessity of paving them t-^ 
ThtLt tho&e materiids could be procored botli by the canals ; 
iftd by 0ea is eTident; but I am satisfied that the mo§t 
economical and preferable mode would be by meami of 


Do yeu consider thät it would be advisable to parte the 
whole of the roads, or that the paving of the centre or 
side«! an ha« been recommended by some witnesses^ would 
be sufficieDt ?^I appreheud that the paving a proper width 
in the centre would be quite 8ufficient> gravel ttiight be 
proper enough for the sides, upon the same principl6 that 
W0, in all newroads which are constmcted, make use of 
BOtetaUiiigy or btoken atones on the middle part of the röad, 
for about from sixteen to eighteen or twenty feet in breadth, 
and leove the sides gravelled and kept dry ; this, in generale 
forms a very perfect read. 

Ig- there any prineiple which you would think proper to 
recommend in regard to the ahape of the otones to be used 
in paving roads ?— «I am of opinion that the general shape ot 
the stones at present used for pavii^, and the modes of dis^ 
tributing them are very imperfecta the lower part of the 
stones heilig of a triangulär wedge-like shape, which^ instead 
of enabling them to resist the weighta which come upon 
them; easilypenetrate into thesubstratum; the stones areaJso 
broken of an unequal size. The remedies for these defects 
are obvious» they should be as nearly as possibie of a cabical 
form, its Iower bed having an equal surface with its upper 
face ; they should be selected as nearly as possibie of an 
equal size, and they should never be of gresK length on Ihe 
face. . 

In quarrying and preparing the stones would there be any 



additional expense in forming them into the cubical shape now 
recommended ? — There "wodd certainlj be an additional 
expense in the preparation, because there would be more 
work required in the dressing, and many stones must be t 
rejected which are now used; but I think the additional 
expense would be very well oestowed. 

Are you of opinion that great injury is done to turnpike 
roads by the heavy weights carried in waggons upon them ?— 

Are you of opinion that any breadth of^heels for those 
Waggons will justify the present exemption from tolls?— It 
certainly ought not. 

In wbat manner would you recommend that the toUs 
should be apportioned to the weights carried by waggons on 
those roads f — I am of opinion that the most advisable mode 
would be to apportion the tolls to the weight carried on each 
wheely without reference to the breadth, provided it is not 
allowed to be less than four inches. 

For the purpose of assessing the tolls in this instance» 
would it not be necessary that the waggon should be weighed. 
a( every tumpike gate ?-^There ought to be a power to do 
it, but there might be a check by means of toll tickets» 
similar to what is done upon nayigable canals. 

With a view of ^tablishing good roads generally through- 
out the kingdom» and of keeping them in repair upon the 
most eccmomical plan, what limitetion would you propose 
as to the actual weight each carriage diould be allowed to 
carry?— I should think it should never exceed four tons» 
which should be a ton upon each wheel ; when it exceeds 
that weight the best materials which can be profcured for 
rpad-piakinj5 muit be deranged and ground to piece^« 

195 . 

Martis, 11» die Maiiy J819. 

Mr. Robert Perry^ called in ; and Examined« 

YOU hold a Situation in the Post-office? — YeB> und^r 
IVIr. Johnson, inspector of the maus in the Po9t*office. 

Since the examination of Mr. Johnson beforethis Com- 
mittee, has the Post-office received anyfurther report on 
the State of any of the roads near the Metropolis ?•— Yes ; 
one that is between Staii^es and Bagshot^ which I have 
brought with me. 

[^DeUveredint and read:'} 

State of the Tumpike Road between Staines and Bagshot, 

May4th, 1819. 

From Staines Bridge to Egham the form of the road has 
been considerably altered for the better, with plenty of 
watercourses and arehed drains: through Egham town the 
dirt has been entirely removed, and a very plentifiil supply 
of well-sifted grayel laid on, which will in a short time make 
a good hard road. The hill likewise hat reoently been co- 
vered with a thick coat of good stones, which will require a 
little time to cement; from thence the road is greadyim- 
proved; the sides are pared down» and kept particularly 
clean« • 

At Virginia Water every thing appears to have been done 
to the hiUs, that the time and sandy nature of the seil would 
permit ; it is now in a good form, and level. 

From Virginia Water Hül, by Broom Hill Hut, tb6 road 
has been well scraped, the watercourses opened, and the 
sides kept dean, and is in a very good State all the way to 

(SignedJ Samuel M<nddocksJ* 








«3 i 








8 S S 8 »wjijs ft-' 

■ * ^^ ^^ o 

• • • '. ppSSS* 

• ^ »tfc. KQ . . • %. 

;o S*co 

üi o 


O N- Oi ö"^2 

• • ••• «• 

s g 

^ s s 





In ± 

*^ o 


Ol üt CA Ol O) «>» 00 

^ ^O» 5jp O Ol Ca 

I i I ISI . 

I I I I I i c. 




00 H-i ;0 

CO o^ to 

Ä »J^ »-* 

O Ol o 

i i I 

I i I 

sr Oi 

CA fcO CO ►--l O © 

CO Ol H^ oocngo o^ 

CA Cn kO 08 QC O) p 

I I I ^OOiö N- 

I I I b5*<4l-^ OD 


tO CA 

'^ CO 

09 1^ m 

't-. H^ ^ 

QD <2 fcO 

CO H- o 

O^ O) I 

O 1^ I 


Ol fcO^OO fcO i 











CA 1-^ 

S I 


CA H- ;0 

^ >> «• 

Cn O^ O 

I ^ I 

I o I 


00 «^ 


2 5